1) You may think that you are presenting the standard charedi/yeshivish viewpoint, but I spent many years in that world and you are wrong. They would not say that Rashi was plain wrong here.
2) I'm not sure if you realize this, but Rashi could just have checked, the same way as Ramban did. But he didn't, because (due to his cultural worldview) he did not realize the value of empirical investigation. Don't you think that malachim with a supernatural grasp of reality and a level of wisdom that we cannot even being to fathom would realize that?"
1. You cannot trust *anything* that Natan says about the yeshivish/chareidi community, especially anything with nuance. He is a kofer, and flat-out makes up stuff all the time. And I mean *all* the time, even when he doesn't need to to prove a point.
2. Again, a stupid statement that makes no sense. Rashi could have just gone out and captured hawks and dissected them? Does he even think for a split second before he writes something? About his ignorant contention that people didn't value empirical evidence in those times, see the beginning of my post here: https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/torah-chazal-geonim-rishonim-acharonim
"Rashi didn't realize that empirical investigation is a valuable way to figure out the truth of this topic."- translation- Rashi didn't realize that dissecting birds could provide insights on anatomy. Just like Aristotle didn't realize that counting teeth could show you how many teeth somebody has. Does anybody actually think this makes a *drop* of sense? This is a great example of what I said before, Natan just making up complete and utter nonsense on the spot, for absolutely no reason.
Very nice, you're good at this stuff! I've added in the past (see this thread, for example: https://rationalistjudaism2.substack.com/p/angels/comment/18659563) that we've made progress specifically and exclusively in the study of the physical. Nothing in the main things have we made any progress whatsoever. We know nothing about the mind, language and the origin of life, and I mean nothing at all, and by golly, these are the 'spiritual' elements of the world.
It's not insults. How would *you* write about a racist, and anti-vaxxer, or a flat-earther (assuming you don't hold of those positions)? My language is perfectly appropriate for people who try to push false and harmful disinformation.
Would you or would you not apply the same standards to a racist or Holocaust denier? If yes, then maybe this is just not the site for you. We are not in the business of bringing "proofs" for people who claim that the Holocaust never happened.
Seriously? Have you seen some of Happy's attempts? I have. He used to be polite to a fault. On what basis do you ascribe a similar desire to seek the truth to these people? They are retards. Many people who used to bristle at my use of the term now nod in agreement.
Sorry this off-topic comment. Happy, you have competition. I have now been banned from RJ twice! The comment that brought this forth:
The common people can only work on themselves and influence, to a degree, those close to them. They have no ability to influence the multitudes, for good or bad. The leadership on the other hand, once the corruption took root, it spread far and wide. The leadership not only can influence but mandate. And their ability to influence is substantial. It has always been thus.
You are a retard. Rav Elysshiv held no office. His power, such as was, had nothing to do with authority vested in him by the state. That there are those with temporal power who deferred to him does not confer actual temporal authority.
UTJ and Shas are political parties, not the state. On their own, they have no power, other than what their supporters confer on them, which is not much. And you conflate "state" with "government". The Knesset is part of the state too. But the government is the executive. It wields power. When they are not in the government, they might still be in the state, but they have no power.
"Why don't you protest when the mesora is being denied by that other blog that you comment on?"
Be specific Ephraim. What denial? Cite some sources.
Natan's justification: Ok. I've had enough of your conspiracy theories, and you calling people "retards." Goodbye and refuah shelemah.
Natan is a also retard, but I already knew that. He conflates beliefs I have expressed, which obviously imply conspiracies, with conspiracy theories, but I never delve into or speculate on the why or how, or even care that much.
I could cite (probably) hundreds of conspiracies that governments were involved in that led to millions of destroyed lives and massive destruction. Like the completely faked Gulf of Tonkin incident that led to the Vietnam War. Real, admitted, uncontested conspiracies.
I'm always careful to abide by the host's rules. If he issued warnings, like other bloggers I know, he wouldn't be so retarded. He could have said, apropos to my comment, "Shimshon, if you use the word 'retard' again you will be banned," and I would have of course respected that. But he's too thin-skinned to do so.
Also, the conspiracy theory accusation is just more proof of getting under his skin, as there was nothing conspiratorial in that, or in fact most of, my comments. Even in the big flat earth post of his from some months back. I stick to facts and it's the retards drag conspiracies and speculation as to the who or why into the discussion.
Of course, he banned you with the claim that you misrepresented him, which of course you didn't. He just didn't appreciate the accurate characterization of his stated beliefs.
What's the worst reading possible? He literally makes a point of saying that the Chasam Sofer didn't invoke his great rabbinic authority. Which is really silly, if somebody in the Bais Medrash said it, I would of course assume it's a joke. When Slifkin says it, I assume it's because he is an ignoramus.
I don't think that's a great point, but it's definitely not what he said. In any case, I see no reason to try to reinterpret his words in a way that makes sense, given my experience with him.
Why is that an important point? And he is absolutely right that you should not say it if you are not on a very high level. How could an am ha'aretz like Slifkin dare to say Rashi or the Rambam was wrong on his own? See my linked science post.
Thread in response to comments at RJ:
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/rashi-and-the-raptors/comment/21103664
Natan Slifkin
10 hr ago
Author
1) You may think that you are presenting the standard charedi/yeshivish viewpoint, but I spent many years in that world and you are wrong. They would not say that Rashi was plain wrong here.
2) I'm not sure if you realize this, but Rashi could just have checked, the same way as Ramban did. But he didn't, because (due to his cultural worldview) he did not realize the value of empirical investigation. Don't you think that malachim with a supernatural grasp of reality and a level of wisdom that we cannot even being to fathom would realize that?"
1. You cannot trust *anything* that Natan says about the yeshivish/chareidi community, especially anything with nuance. He is a kofer, and flat-out makes up stuff all the time. And I mean *all* the time, even when he doesn't need to to prove a point.
2. Again, a stupid statement that makes no sense. Rashi could have just gone out and captured hawks and dissected them? Does he even think for a split second before he writes something? About his ignorant contention that people didn't value empirical evidence in those times, see the beginning of my post here: https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/torah-chazal-geonim-rishonim-acharonim
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/rashi-and-the-raptors/comment/21127177
"author
Natan Slifkin
4 min ago
Author
No. The point is that Rashi didn't realize that empirical investigation is a valuable way to figure out the truth of this topic.
LIKE
REPLY (1)
דוד™️
Writes Rationalist Judaism 2.0
1 min ago
says you."
See again the beginning of my post https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/torah-chazal-geonim-rishonim-acharonim
"Rashi didn't realize that empirical investigation is a valuable way to figure out the truth of this topic."- translation- Rashi didn't realize that dissecting birds could provide insights on anatomy. Just like Aristotle didn't realize that counting teeth could show you how many teeth somebody has. Does anybody actually think this makes a *drop* of sense? This is a great example of what I said before, Natan just making up complete and utter nonsense on the spot, for absolutely no reason.
Very nice, you're good at this stuff! I've added in the past (see this thread, for example: https://rationalistjudaism2.substack.com/p/angels/comment/18659563) that we've made progress specifically and exclusively in the study of the physical. Nothing in the main things have we made any progress whatsoever. We know nothing about the mind, language and the origin of life, and I mean nothing at all, and by golly, these are the 'spiritual' elements of the world.
====
Edit - see also this super-long comment towards the end - https://daastorah.substack.com/p/read-the-torah/comment/16381674
Thanks, this was for you!
Language!? We know quite a lot about it.
I meant origin of...
Great story btw!
You should put these together in a book
Its called how to train your dragon
Serious question. Why are you consistently using insults with those with whom you disagree?
It's not insults. How would *you* write about a racist, and anti-vaxxer, or a flat-earther (assuming you don't hold of those positions)? My language is perfectly appropriate for people who try to push false and harmful disinformation.
" My language is perfectly appropriate for people who try to push false and harmful disinformation."
In your opinion it's false and harmful disinformation.
You could try to prove them wrong without insulting them.
Would you or would you not apply the same standards to a racist or Holocaust denier? If yes, then maybe this is just not the site for you. We are not in the business of bringing "proofs" for people who claim that the Holocaust never happened.
Why pay attention to Nick Fuentes at all? Even if "deserves it" what does it say about you that you think dishing it out will have any effect on him?
What Happy is doing is having an effect. Natan has commented here on occasion!
Says the Vox Day loon.
Your totally not antisemitic hero:
https://voxday.net/2023/07/17/pharasaism-is-not-pre-christianity/
Seriously? Have you seen some of Happy's attempts? I have. He used to be polite to a fault. On what basis do you ascribe a similar desire to seek the truth to these people? They are retards. Many people who used to bristle at my use of the term now nod in agreement.
You are rude too.
If you are putting me and Happy together, I think that means Happy was persuaded by my logic.
Sorry this off-topic comment. Happy, you have competition. I have now been banned from RJ twice! The comment that brought this forth:
The common people can only work on themselves and influence, to a degree, those close to them. They have no ability to influence the multitudes, for good or bad. The leadership on the other hand, once the corruption took root, it spread far and wide. The leadership not only can influence but mandate. And their ability to influence is substantial. It has always been thus.
You are a retard. Rav Elysshiv held no office. His power, such as was, had nothing to do with authority vested in him by the state. That there are those with temporal power who deferred to him does not confer actual temporal authority.
UTJ and Shas are political parties, not the state. On their own, they have no power, other than what their supporters confer on them, which is not much. And you conflate "state" with "government". The Knesset is part of the state too. But the government is the executive. It wields power. When they are not in the government, they might still be in the state, but they have no power.
"Why don't you protest when the mesora is being denied by that other blog that you comment on?"
Be specific Ephraim. What denial? Cite some sources.
Natan's justification: Ok. I've had enough of your conspiracy theories, and you calling people "retards." Goodbye and refuah shelemah.
Natan is a also retard, but I already knew that. He conflates beliefs I have expressed, which obviously imply conspiracies, with conspiracy theories, but I never delve into or speculate on the why or how, or even care that much.
I could cite (probably) hundreds of conspiracies that governments were involved in that led to millions of destroyed lives and massive destruction. Like the completely faked Gulf of Tonkin incident that led to the Vietnam War. Real, admitted, uncontested conspiracies.
Hahaha! As I said in my other post, secularists are very pro-censorship when it is something that is offensive to them!
I'm always careful to abide by the host's rules. If he issued warnings, like other bloggers I know, he wouldn't be so retarded. He could have said, apropos to my comment, "Shimshon, if you use the word 'retard' again you will be banned," and I would have of course respected that. But he's too thin-skinned to do so.
Also, the conspiracy theory accusation is just more proof of getting under his skin, as there was nothing conspiratorial in that, or in fact most of, my comments. Even in the big flat earth post of his from some months back. I stick to facts and it's the retards drag conspiracies and speculation as to the who or why into the discussion.
Of course, he banned you with the claim that you misrepresented him, which of course you didn't. He just didn't appreciate the accurate characterization of his stated beliefs.
Reminds me of this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
(One of the articles there that hasn't been censored yet)
𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘥𝘦𝘭𝘦𝘵𝘦𝘥
great explainer!
What's the worst reading possible? He literally makes a point of saying that the Chasam Sofer didn't invoke his great rabbinic authority. Which is really silly, if somebody in the Bais Medrash said it, I would of course assume it's a joke. When Slifkin says it, I assume it's because he is an ignoramus.
What's with all the deleted here?
I don't think that's a great point, but it's definitely not what he said. In any case, I see no reason to try to reinterpret his words in a way that makes sense, given my experience with him.
Why is that an important point? And he is absolutely right that you should not say it if you are not on a very high level. How could an am ha'aretz like Slifkin dare to say Rashi or the Rambam was wrong on his own? See my linked science post.