However, I do think it would be quite appropriate for us to write emails to elected officials, thanking them for their support and encouraging future support.
If someone can make a list of such officials, with their email addresses and current stands on issues of Jews and Israel, we can use it to influence them to make positive decisions for us.
Remember, during the Yom Kippur war, Kissinger's position was to let the Jews bleed a little. Don't put anything past these politicians.
I know there were other opinions, but to what you are saying, Rav Avigdor Miller was famously against public rallies (such as for soviet Jewry) but constantly wrote letters to politicians.
"No doubt that the slow business at the museum is likely taking an additional toll on his mental health, giving him plenty of extra time to focus on his life obsession"
It's sad - when most yidden have a slow business period, they spend some extra time in the Beis Medrash.
Natan, whose salary comes from public funds, can't do that (besides the obvious reasons) because if so he'd be taking a government stipend to sit and learn. That'd never do.
So instead he's taking your tax dollars to sit in his pajamas by his computer. Whatever.
Just so you know, Natan's father-in-law is a very wealthy man and that is where most of the money has come from (not to mention the semi-annual around the world luxury vacation junkets).
Again, nobody expects Slifkin to back his position with any facts, or to understand what is going on. That takes thought, time, empathy, and IQ points.
But for everybody else here, the reason behind the non-participation of Lakewood and other Charedim is quite simple. There is no clear objective here, no apparent reason why all of this is necessary. There are many ways of pushing politicians to do something that does not include this colossal waste of time and joining up with the irreligious. (Yes, contrary to the kumbaya beliefs of the '60s, the Torah actually forbids התחברות לרשעים, and people who don't keep Mitzvos, don't care for Torah and don't follow the Torah, are those Resha'im. As much as we love them as our brothers, a distance must be kept. We wish for them to return, we haven't given up on them. But our hands are tied by the Torah.)
Indeed, I saw tweets and virtue signalers saying that they strongly support this, but they have important meetings today. People in BMG have more important meetings - with the Rashba, the Ketzos, and Reb Boruch Ber.
Things would be different if a clear objective existed, with an understandable connection between this demo and saving lives. But right now, it's more about solidarity, achdus, Jewish pride, and 'sticking it to them,' and not much about saving a single life.
It's interesting that the same people who demand "parameters please" when it comes to Torah protecting all of the sudden treat political rallies like they are proven to be super effective at having major lifesaving effects in a different country, with zero parameters whatsoever.
Not a comparison. Safek nefashos l'hachmir would require doing something w/o any parameters for proven efficacy. (Yes I know about the Chazon Ish, but I'm presenting the other side's position). The ones demanding parameters for Torah protects are dong so under the (mistaken) belief that it means to do so at the cost of regular hishtadlus, which would be dangerous and thus a kula in sakanas nefashos.
It's true that they are generally confused about what the implications of Torah protects really are. But at the same time, I don't think they view a rally as something without any known efficacy which is only done because "why not, can't hurt to try", but view it as a vital and effective form of hishtadlus, despite having no parameters.
I'm not sure it's so obvious that it actually has an effect on the bottom line, but I agree it's good hishtadlus. But the point is that it's much more obvious that Torah and mitzvos save lives, yet all the sudden people start demanding "parameters" for that.
I disagree. I think the rally has a pretty clear objective. It is the way to pressure politicians to keep up their support of Israel. I don't think any of the "many other ways" are nearly as effective.
I'm not sure I understand your position on this. Slifkin is a meisis who has been r"l confusing impressionable Yidden about dvarim ha'omdim b'rumo shel olam for years. Why wouldn't you use whatever methods you have to get around his pathetic sniveling tactics that prevent the alternative viewpoint from being heard?
Morality and ethics my friend, morality and ethics. And good old derekh eretz (proper ethical conduct). Don't the sages say derekh eretz kadmah l'Torah?
Are you aware what derech eretz means in that mishnah, to those who know these things.... maybe the meaning is somewhat embarrasing.
How do you explain thie mishnah below according to your 'teitch"? Other than it means two different things in close proximity to each other. I've heard worse, I suppose.
1: "רבי נחוניא בן הקנה אומר: כל המקבל עליו עול תורה, מעבירין ממנו עול מלכות ועול דרך ארץ. וכל הפורק ממנו עול תורה - נותנים עליו עול מלכות ועול דרך ארץ". (פרקי אבות
It means anybody who accepts the burden of Torah is accused of lacking ethics (מעבירין means other people will remove it), because the Torah says seemingly unethical things, such as killing Amalek.
Not true. He banned me because I told potty-mouthed David Ilan, whose every comment was an insult, that he's not respectable. In any case, insulting Nathan is not a justification, since he had previously, for years, told people he didn't mind insults. No, he started banning because he was losing control of the narrative, plain and simple + he's starting to really lose it.
I agree with you in general on this, but with you, I think he realized your "other name" and since you were already banned once for "misrepresenting his views" he just decided to ban you. Pity, RJ was a lot more enjoyable with you on. And since Sender Goldberg was banned, I don't hear from him since he's not on this blog for some reason. I liked that one, totally unpredictable and blunt.
"No doubt that the slow business at the museum is likely taking an additional toll on his mental health, giving him plenty of extra time to focus on his life obsession"
Additionally, he's been trying desperately to get a gig as a scholar in residence somewhere in the US, with apparently little success. This can't be too beneficial for his already fragile ego.
I would recommend he lower his price, or offer some kind of incentive, like free shipping.
"Legendary doorknob available as a scholar in residence, somewhere on planet earth. Electricity and indoor plumbing not necessary. Who ever thought a scholar in residence must be a scholar?. We guarantee to WOW your audience of incoherent ignorant closed minded RATIONALIZATIONISTS. We offer discourses on the following dazzling,diverse topics:
1. The BAN- what it feels like
2. The BAN- what it felt like
3. How to get banned
4. why do chareidim love BANS
5. From BAN to turBAN, the connection between chareidim and muslims
5. Banned?
7. Banned!
8. Seing the Ban in BANanas: Chareidi ridiculous dietary laws
9. Dinosaurs and dynamite; Chareidim in the military, museum, and workforce
10. Going broke: Why the Israeli economy crashed 80 years ago
11. Egyptian economics: How the original Jews made Egypt bankrupt end then escaped with the plunder
12. The seven years of plenty: a closed minded chareidi's version of economics
13. The ban, again
14. A nation of priests; racism in the old testament.
15. I was BANNED
16. The wisdom of Balaam
17. Korach; Messing with Chareidim
18. Plus MUCH, MUCH, more
Now offering FREE SHIPPING and REFRESHMENTS for all lectures. No ticket, accomodations, or directions necessary. Please please please call the museum to arrange such an event. Its something you and your constituents will not regret. Money back GUARANTEED!
After three bannings, I think I am an authority on the matter. There is no ability to sway and no further point for attempts at discussion. What is going on at RJ since Simchas Torah is very clarifying and edifying. It's not even that much fun anymore.
Perhaps because Happy's banning, like mine, were one-offs, with stated reasons given, even if the reasons were demonstrably wrong or addressable. It's reasonable to think that one abides by the old and new rules, one will be welcomed back as a new avatar.
The second bans (Joyous and Shockpuppet) were different, eventually encompassing many more people, and clearly reflective of a desire to thin out his commentariat. I was given no reason at all, and the reason for Joyous' banning were head-scratching.
It would be rude, as well as pointless, to keep at it.
Got this from Happy in an email notification but for some reason it doesn't show here in the comments:
"It happens to be that was a different matter completely, where Happy was unbanned but not unblocked and was in sort of a limbo state, and Joyous announced his intentions ahead of time to the administrator and made his identity exceedingly obvious in his profile. But I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever recommend that anybody try to easily and continually evade bans using the methods outlined above, even when the blog admin went on an unjustified, arbitrary, and capricious ban spree just because he was feeling the heat. Because that would be unethical trolling."
I can't say I understand it - but then again I'm no expert about the laws of "unethical trolling". But what is unethical about evading a ban? Especially when it's obvious who you are.
However, I do think it would be quite appropriate for us to write emails to elected officials, thanking them for their support and encouraging future support.
If someone can make a list of such officials, with their email addresses and current stands on issues of Jews and Israel, we can use it to influence them to make positive decisions for us.
Remember, during the Yom Kippur war, Kissinger's position was to let the Jews bleed a little. Don't put anything past these politicians.
I know there were other opinions, but to what you are saying, Rav Avigdor Miller was famously against public rallies (such as for soviet Jewry) but constantly wrote letters to politicians.
"No doubt that the slow business at the museum is likely taking an additional toll on his mental health, giving him plenty of extra time to focus on his life obsession"
It's sad - when most yidden have a slow business period, they spend some extra time in the Beis Medrash.
Natan, whose salary comes from public funds, can't do that (besides the obvious reasons) because if so he'd be taking a government stipend to sit and learn. That'd never do.
So instead he's taking your tax dollars to sit in his pajamas by his computer. Whatever.
Just so you know, Natan's father-in-law is a very wealthy man and that is where most of the money has come from (not to mention the semi-annual around the world luxury vacation junkets).
Here is our problem.
What do we do with a character who wants to know why we can't learn on the way to the rally? Why do we need to stay in Beis Hamedrash?
And Rabbi Willig said 8 Shiurim on the way, so what's the problem?
When characters like that also have a vote and an opinion, what is left for us?
Here is my comment for Slifkin's march analysis:
Again, nobody expects Slifkin to back his position with any facts, or to understand what is going on. That takes thought, time, empathy, and IQ points.
But for everybody else here, the reason behind the non-participation of Lakewood and other Charedim is quite simple. There is no clear objective here, no apparent reason why all of this is necessary. There are many ways of pushing politicians to do something that does not include this colossal waste of time and joining up with the irreligious. (Yes, contrary to the kumbaya beliefs of the '60s, the Torah actually forbids התחברות לרשעים, and people who don't keep Mitzvos, don't care for Torah and don't follow the Torah, are those Resha'im. As much as we love them as our brothers, a distance must be kept. We wish for them to return, we haven't given up on them. But our hands are tied by the Torah.)
Indeed, I saw tweets and virtue signalers saying that they strongly support this, but they have important meetings today. People in BMG have more important meetings - with the Rashba, the Ketzos, and Reb Boruch Ber.
Things would be different if a clear objective existed, with an understandable connection between this demo and saving lives. But right now, it's more about solidarity, achdus, Jewish pride, and 'sticking it to them,' and not much about saving a single life.
It's interesting that the same people who demand "parameters please" when it comes to Torah protecting all of the sudden treat political rallies like they are proven to be super effective at having major lifesaving effects in a different country, with zero parameters whatsoever.
Not a comparison. Safek nefashos l'hachmir would require doing something w/o any parameters for proven efficacy. (Yes I know about the Chazon Ish, but I'm presenting the other side's position). The ones demanding parameters for Torah protects are dong so under the (mistaken) belief that it means to do so at the cost of regular hishtadlus, which would be dangerous and thus a kula in sakanas nefashos.
It's true that they are generally confused about what the implications of Torah protects really are. But at the same time, I don't think they view a rally as something without any known efficacy which is only done because "why not, can't hurt to try", but view it as a vital and effective form of hishtadlus, despite having no parameters.
I think its quite obvious that mass demonstrations of solidarity have some sway. What do you have to lose?
I'm not sure it's so obvious that it actually has an effect on the bottom line, but I agree it's good hishtadlus. But the point is that it's much more obvious that Torah and mitzvos save lives, yet all the sudden people start demanding "parameters" for that.
I disagree. I think the rally has a pretty clear objective. It is the way to pressure politicians to keep up their support of Israel. I don't think any of the "many other ways" are nearly as effective.
Mass emails, arriving regularly, won't do the same thing?
I don't know why you say so.
Rallies generate much more publicity. It's much harder for politicians to ignore.
Why do you love them if theyre רשעים ? Arent you מחוייב to hate them?
I'm not sure I understand your position on this. Slifkin is a meisis who has been r"l confusing impressionable Yidden about dvarim ha'omdim b'rumo shel olam for years. Why wouldn't you use whatever methods you have to get around his pathetic sniveling tactics that prevent the alternative viewpoint from being heard?
Morality and ethics my friend, morality and ethics. And good old derekh eretz (proper ethical conduct). Don't the sages say derekh eretz kadmah l'Torah?
Are you aware what derech eretz means in that mishnah, to those who know these things.... maybe the meaning is somewhat embarrasing.
How do you explain thie mishnah below according to your 'teitch"? Other than it means two different things in close proximity to each other. I've heard worse, I suppose.
1: "רבי נחוניא בן הקנה אומר: כל המקבל עליו עול תורה, מעבירין ממנו עול מלכות ועול דרך ארץ. וכל הפורק ממנו עול תורה - נותנים עליו עול מלכות ועול דרך ארץ". (פרקי אבות
It means anybody who accepts the burden of Torah is accused of lacking ethics (מעבירין means other people will remove it), because the Torah says seemingly unethical things, such as killing Amalek.
"Other people will remove it" does not equal "accused".
Words mean things, you know.
not when it's drush!
It's not 'drush' here - no possuk is being 'darshened', no remez in a possuk. It's a straightforward statement of advice.
Hes only banning those who insukt him personally. Not those who present the chareidi position.
Not true. He banned me because I told potty-mouthed David Ilan, whose every comment was an insult, that he's not respectable. In any case, insulting Nathan is not a justification, since he had previously, for years, told people he didn't mind insults. No, he started banning because he was losing control of the narrative, plain and simple + he's starting to really lose it.
I agree with you in general on this, but with you, I think he realized your "other name" and since you were already banned once for "misrepresenting his views" he just decided to ban you. Pity, RJ was a lot more enjoyable with you on. And since Sender Goldberg was banned, I don't hear from him since he's not on this blog for some reason. I liked that one, totally unpredictable and blunt.
"No doubt that the slow business at the museum is likely taking an additional toll on his mental health, giving him plenty of extra time to focus on his life obsession"
Additionally, he's been trying desperately to get a gig as a scholar in residence somewhere in the US, with apparently little success. This can't be too beneficial for his already fragile ego.
I would recommend he lower his price, or offer some kind of incentive, like free shipping.
"Legendary doorknob available as a scholar in residence, somewhere on planet earth. Electricity and indoor plumbing not necessary. Who ever thought a scholar in residence must be a scholar?. We guarantee to WOW your audience of incoherent ignorant closed minded RATIONALIZATIONISTS. We offer discourses on the following dazzling,diverse topics:
1. The BAN- what it feels like
2. The BAN- what it felt like
3. How to get banned
4. why do chareidim love BANS
5. From BAN to turBAN, the connection between chareidim and muslims
5. Banned?
7. Banned!
8. Seing the Ban in BANanas: Chareidi ridiculous dietary laws
9. Dinosaurs and dynamite; Chareidim in the military, museum, and workforce
10. Going broke: Why the Israeli economy crashed 80 years ago
11. Egyptian economics: How the original Jews made Egypt bankrupt end then escaped with the plunder
12. The seven years of plenty: a closed minded chareidi's version of economics
13. The ban, again
14. A nation of priests; racism in the old testament.
15. I was BANNED
16. The wisdom of Balaam
17. Korach; Messing with Chareidim
18. Plus MUCH, MUCH, more
Now offering FREE SHIPPING and REFRESHMENTS for all lectures. No ticket, accomodations, or directions necessary. Please please please call the museum to arrange such an event. Its something you and your constituents will not regret. Money back GUARANTEED!
Dr. Strangelove 2: How I learned to Love the Ban
An AI Peter Sellers stars in an unprecedented FOUR roles, reprising old favorites and introducing the breakout sensation RDN Sslyfkyn.
We don't get to meet your cousins Cheerful and Jubilant? I'm disappointed.
Of course not. I would never tell people to NOT do something, and then go ahead and do it myself. Perish the thought.
After three bannings, I think I am an authority on the matter. There is no ability to sway and no further point for attempts at discussion. What is going on at RJ since Simchas Torah is very clarifying and edifying. It's not even that much fun anymore.
So why was Joyous commenting (until recently)?
Perhaps because Happy's banning, like mine, were one-offs, with stated reasons given, even if the reasons were demonstrably wrong or addressable. It's reasonable to think that one abides by the old and new rules, one will be welcomed back as a new avatar.
The second bans (Joyous and Shockpuppet) were different, eventually encompassing many more people, and clearly reflective of a desire to thin out his commentariat. I was given no reason at all, and the reason for Joyous' banning were head-scratching.
It would be rude, as well as pointless, to keep at it.
Got this from Happy in an email notification but for some reason it doesn't show here in the comments:
"It happens to be that was a different matter completely, where Happy was unbanned but not unblocked and was in sort of a limbo state, and Joyous announced his intentions ahead of time to the administrator and made his identity exceedingly obvious in his profile. But I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever recommend that anybody try to easily and continually evade bans using the methods outlined above, even when the blog admin went on an unjustified, arbitrary, and capricious ban spree just because he was feeling the heat. Because that would be unethical trolling."
I can't say I understand it - but then again I'm no expert about the laws of "unethical trolling". But what is unethical about evading a ban? Especially when it's obvious who you are.