The comment "Are we Jews mostly concerned with our own parochial, national self-interest of the Jewish community, and thereby act selfishly to the rest of the world?" should be read in context. All normal human beings are only interested in themselves and their groupings e.g by religion, occupation, locality. Each religious group, or occupation or locality sets itself as the object of that association.
I remember reading an article how many trades in the USA have their required qualifications in individual states fixed by state law when the required skills are obvious and do not need state regulation. Barbers come to mind. The underlying objective is to limit qualified operators so increasing the revenue for those who have already qualified. Also requiring a long training period delays / limits entry into the profession so decreasing supply and allowing high charge out rates by those who qualified .
In the USA I understand many states offer subsidies or preferential tax rates for companies setting up plants in their state i.e. the state is looking after its own interest and not the country's interest.
Given the above quote is to single out the Jews as looking out for their own interesrts without stating that so naturally do many other groupings ( religious, professional, geographic etc) is in my view antisemitic since it implies Jews are different from anyone else.
However I do note judging by the names on university buildings, hospitals etc a preponderance of Jewish names. Our culture is to give charity - and generously. However gratitude is a quality in short supply in human activity around the world.
"...i understand that this has some horrible sounding ramifications. it means we "don't care about anything but ourselves." we are living in this country and are not willing to fight for it. we're just leeches. but hey - guess what? that was the antisemitic rhetoric for our entire existence! we were always hated because we were leeches. we've always lived in other countries while we really never cared about them. we never joined their armies (unless we were forced, which was considered a terrible tragedy), we never became "them." and it bothered our hosts to no end. i hate to say it, and i i say this hoping you can take this in context, but this isn't quite so different. this is what happens when the mission is olam haba and torah, not olam hazeh. we don't get sucked up in the noise of the world and all of its screaming "hishtadlus." we simply do what He asks, and He in turn takes care of the menial stuff. that is chareidi ideology. (again, it's not actually like other countries, but in the scale of importance to our torah learning, it is)
it may sound selfish, but it really just is a different value system. the call to fight in the army is the same as the call to fight in the american army. saving israel is simply not something worth giving up yiddishkeit for. when our numbers are really needed, hopefully the army will have no choice but to make real accommodations on our terms, limiting the spiritual damage."
I see I missed some good stuff while busy with good things at home. I think this post is your most important work so far and I would love to write a post about chesed vs taking from the government
Rhetoric has to contain a kernel of truth to be effective.
The Bavli says the Churban Bayis Sheini happened because of sinas chinam. The Yerushalmi says sinas chinam and...love of money.
Being personally righteous but still a lover of money can still apply.
Case in point is the Reichmann family. Not long ago, I had wondered what happened to them after their hard fall in the 1990s. It turned out, in their efforts to reclaim lost glory or money or whatever they had partnered for a time with fellow Hungarian George Soros. Then, I knew. George Soros had a knack for making money. But...former partner Jim Rogers, while usually circumspect about their split, spilled the beans one time in some book about him, and it was clear that he was a very bad man. Ruthlessly amoral, who would kill his own mother (IMHO) if he thought he could gain from it. At best, the Reichmanns displayed appallingly poor judgement teaming up with him. Because of money.
Love of money is destructive. And my experience, growing up in Beverly Hills among movers and shakers, is that Jews love money in a way that defies description.
This movie doesn't even have to be 10% true to convey feelings that resonate with the goyim among whom the Jews were living. There is a kernel of truth to the story.
I have strong opinions on this that usually turn people the wrong way, so I'm glad you opened the door to a nuanced conversation. As an aside, I despise the label anti-semitism, as it's been used and abused as a cudgel by some (like the ADL) so as to become almost meaningless, like calling everyone who doesn't like BLM a racist.
I actually have a fair bit of sympathy for far-right Jew haters. The fact is that the people in the USA that do the most to undermine the moral Chrisitna underpinnings that are fundamental to America are, by and large, ethnically Jewish.
Wall St is obvious, where ethnic Jews have tremendous outsize power and influence relative to the size of the population. This extends all the way to the Federal Reserve and Treasurer, both positions that have been held by Jews many times.
Media is another - both news (journalists and editors at the NYT and WP are inordinately Jewish, as well as CNN, MSNBC etc) - then extend to Hollywood and it’s exponentially greater. (and the porn industry is just an extension of Hollywood). And the music industry is the same
Then tech - count the founders of Google, Facebook, Snapchat, Oracle - the list goes on and on. The guy at Twitter that Musk had to chuck who was in charge of all the censorship was one Yoel Roth. Sandberg made FB what it is. The executives, the VC’s - it’s all a big group of Jews.
Go to medicine, and again it’s surprising how many of the doctors loudly forcing us to take the poison shot (Hotez, Mandy Kohen, Rochelle Walensky). And the pharma companies (Bourla, Bancel, the Sacklers) )Go to law, and it’s the Jews that are progressive SC justices (RBG, Kagan, Breyer etc). It was Jewish prosecutors who led the charge against Trump's first impeachment (assume that Trump represents the average right wing redneck's attempt at recapturing what they wish America was), it’s Jewish prosecutors going after Trump today, it’s Jewish prosecutors covering for Hunter Biden today. Go to politics, it’s the loud Jews that are most progressive (Schumer, Schiff, Nadler, Raskin etc etc etc). Many of the top positions in Clinton, Obama, and Biden are Jewish (Jack Lew, Rahm Emmnaul, Mayoraks, Blinked, Jake Sullivan). Go to academia, and many of the top lunatic left Professors and Deans are Jewish. And let’s not talk about the Jeffrey Epsteins….
It’s obvious that amongst the ‘elite’ echelons of American society, ethnic Ashkenazi Jews have tremendously outsize power and act somewhat like a mafia, with nepotism and rule of power rather than rule of law. And with American society so degraded, the group at large becomes a scapegoat.
I am well aware that these people do not act in accordance with true Jewish values, and when they claim that they are, we loudly deny them. In fact, I know that the reason for their immorality is that they are trying to fill the G-d sized hole in their hearts. I know that there are good moral Jews on the good side of all the above flashpoints. But that’s me - I actually don’t blame Kevin from Bumf-ck, Kansas to know and te;ll the difference, and I don’t blame him for hating those guys with the funnyberg last names for the state of society.
There may not be a solution for now. Our mesorah teaches that Eisav soneh es Yakov (and Sinai is called that because at the time Sinah descended to the world), that Yishamel is a pera adam and dislikes the children of Yitzchak. The exact nature and psychology of this pathos is very malleable, and impossible to accurately define - it can come from Eisav and Amaleik (notable examples being the 20th century Germans and the Spanish Inquisition) it can come from Yefes (the Hellenists, as well as centuries of Slavic hatred which stems from the Greek Orthodox Church, also Atheism which has led directly to communism), and obviously Arab hatred is it's own unique favor.
The far right Jew haters of today (and the Germans of yesteryear) make the error of assuming that the leftist atheist immoral Jews act the way they do because of the teachings of Judaism. We know this is wrong, and the reason they make this error is not because of a desire for truth but due to their own twisted evil hearts.
The complete solution obviously will only exist with the coming of Moshiach and removal of this evil Inclination, and until then we will remain afflicted with it.
That said, even during golus we must do our best hishtadlus to minimise our association with non Torah Jews. Certainly, we shouldn’t go running to the likes of Schumer when he’s handing out money, suddenly glad that he’s Anash - cause if we do, then why blame the rednecks for putting us all in the same basket.
Same applies to the Rally that caused so much friction a couple months ago - I think the same reasoning was applied by those who said don’t go. We do not align ourselves with non Torah Jews, because then we are always in the same basket as them, and that’s not true - whilst we can be ish echad velev echad, we are not whilst they have not done teshuvah.
It may not help us when they come to try put us in camps again, but it’s the minimum hishtadlus we must do right now.
I think there is truth to the antisemitic claim that we kinda take take take. We don't have our own land and we live as guests, and we do our own thing, never fully integrating.
As a kid I heard a speech from a Rabbi Mordechai Becher (Australian kiruv professional) who compared us to the Harry Potter books (which I shamefully never read but heard a lot about). The genius of the series is that these wizards and witches live amongst the muggles but have their own little world to themselves. We Jews, we live, say, in America, and we go to schools, but our own schools. We listen to music, but our own music. We eat in restaurants and pizza shops, but our own restaurants and pizza shops. We speak English, but our own English. We dress with style, but our own style. And so on. We live *amongst* them physically, but we really kinda have our own thing going. And they don't really like it. So while our crime rate is down and we drive carefully and talk respectfully, and they can't really pinpoint to why they hate us so, we are really living parallel lives, where we never really meet up and mingle with them.
This affects our relationship with the country at large. We live in America and even love it, but we are foremost Jews, not Americans. So in a way, we are enjoying the benefits of society but not quite being part of it, not giving back to in the way a "real American" would.
The comment "Are we Jews mostly concerned with our own parochial, national self-interest of the Jewish community, and thereby act selfishly to the rest of the world?" should be read in context. All normal human beings are only interested in themselves and their groupings e.g by religion, occupation, locality. Each religious group, or occupation or locality sets itself as the object of that association.
I remember reading an article how many trades in the USA have their required qualifications in individual states fixed by state law when the required skills are obvious and do not need state regulation. Barbers come to mind. The underlying objective is to limit qualified operators so increasing the revenue for those who have already qualified. Also requiring a long training period delays / limits entry into the profession so decreasing supply and allowing high charge out rates by those who qualified .
In the USA I understand many states offer subsidies or preferential tax rates for companies setting up plants in their state i.e. the state is looking after its own interest and not the country's interest.
Given the above quote is to single out the Jews as looking out for their own interesrts without stating that so naturally do many other groupings ( religious, professional, geographic etc) is in my view antisemitic since it implies Jews are different from anyone else.
However I do note judging by the names on university buildings, hospitals etc a preponderance of Jewish names. Our culture is to give charity - and generously. However gratitude is a quality in short supply in human activity around the world.
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/two-different-universes/comment/46364052
quoting myself;)
"...i understand that this has some horrible sounding ramifications. it means we "don't care about anything but ourselves." we are living in this country and are not willing to fight for it. we're just leeches. but hey - guess what? that was the antisemitic rhetoric for our entire existence! we were always hated because we were leeches. we've always lived in other countries while we really never cared about them. we never joined their armies (unless we were forced, which was considered a terrible tragedy), we never became "them." and it bothered our hosts to no end. i hate to say it, and i i say this hoping you can take this in context, but this isn't quite so different. this is what happens when the mission is olam haba and torah, not olam hazeh. we don't get sucked up in the noise of the world and all of its screaming "hishtadlus." we simply do what He asks, and He in turn takes care of the menial stuff. that is chareidi ideology. (again, it's not actually like other countries, but in the scale of importance to our torah learning, it is)
it may sound selfish, but it really just is a different value system. the call to fight in the army is the same as the call to fight in the american army. saving israel is simply not something worth giving up yiddishkeit for. when our numbers are really needed, hopefully the army will have no choice but to make real accommodations on our terms, limiting the spiritual damage."
Brilliant!
I see I missed some good stuff while busy with good things at home. I think this post is your most important work so far and I would love to write a post about chesed vs taking from the government
You may find this interesting.
Johann Eisenmenger's Judaism Unmasked
https://yutorah.org/lectures/1024736
Rhetoric has to contain a kernel of truth to be effective.
The Bavli says the Churban Bayis Sheini happened because of sinas chinam. The Yerushalmi says sinas chinam and...love of money.
Being personally righteous but still a lover of money can still apply.
Case in point is the Reichmann family. Not long ago, I had wondered what happened to them after their hard fall in the 1990s. It turned out, in their efforts to reclaim lost glory or money or whatever they had partnered for a time with fellow Hungarian George Soros. Then, I knew. George Soros had a knack for making money. But...former partner Jim Rogers, while usually circumspect about their split, spilled the beans one time in some book about him, and it was clear that he was a very bad man. Ruthlessly amoral, who would kill his own mother (IMHO) if he thought he could gain from it. At best, the Reichmanns displayed appallingly poor judgement teaming up with him. Because of money.
Love of money is destructive. And my experience, growing up in Beverly Hills among movers and shakers, is that Jews love money in a way that defies description.
This movie doesn't even have to be 10% true to convey feelings that resonate with the goyim among whom the Jews were living. There is a kernel of truth to the story.
I love that you actually watched this video lol! Curiosity is a wonderful Middah!
I have strong opinions on this that usually turn people the wrong way, so I'm glad you opened the door to a nuanced conversation. As an aside, I despise the label anti-semitism, as it's been used and abused as a cudgel by some (like the ADL) so as to become almost meaningless, like calling everyone who doesn't like BLM a racist.
I actually have a fair bit of sympathy for far-right Jew haters. The fact is that the people in the USA that do the most to undermine the moral Chrisitna underpinnings that are fundamental to America are, by and large, ethnically Jewish.
Wall St is obvious, where ethnic Jews have tremendous outsize power and influence relative to the size of the population. This extends all the way to the Federal Reserve and Treasurer, both positions that have been held by Jews many times.
Media is another - both news (journalists and editors at the NYT and WP are inordinately Jewish, as well as CNN, MSNBC etc) - then extend to Hollywood and it’s exponentially greater. (and the porn industry is just an extension of Hollywood). And the music industry is the same
Then tech - count the founders of Google, Facebook, Snapchat, Oracle - the list goes on and on. The guy at Twitter that Musk had to chuck who was in charge of all the censorship was one Yoel Roth. Sandberg made FB what it is. The executives, the VC’s - it’s all a big group of Jews.
Go to medicine, and again it’s surprising how many of the doctors loudly forcing us to take the poison shot (Hotez, Mandy Kohen, Rochelle Walensky). And the pharma companies (Bourla, Bancel, the Sacklers) )Go to law, and it’s the Jews that are progressive SC justices (RBG, Kagan, Breyer etc). It was Jewish prosecutors who led the charge against Trump's first impeachment (assume that Trump represents the average right wing redneck's attempt at recapturing what they wish America was), it’s Jewish prosecutors going after Trump today, it’s Jewish prosecutors covering for Hunter Biden today. Go to politics, it’s the loud Jews that are most progressive (Schumer, Schiff, Nadler, Raskin etc etc etc). Many of the top positions in Clinton, Obama, and Biden are Jewish (Jack Lew, Rahm Emmnaul, Mayoraks, Blinked, Jake Sullivan). Go to academia, and many of the top lunatic left Professors and Deans are Jewish. And let’s not talk about the Jeffrey Epsteins….
It’s obvious that amongst the ‘elite’ echelons of American society, ethnic Ashkenazi Jews have tremendously outsize power and act somewhat like a mafia, with nepotism and rule of power rather than rule of law. And with American society so degraded, the group at large becomes a scapegoat.
I am well aware that these people do not act in accordance with true Jewish values, and when they claim that they are, we loudly deny them. In fact, I know that the reason for their immorality is that they are trying to fill the G-d sized hole in their hearts. I know that there are good moral Jews on the good side of all the above flashpoints. But that’s me - I actually don’t blame Kevin from Bumf-ck, Kansas to know and te;ll the difference, and I don’t blame him for hating those guys with the funnyberg last names for the state of society.
There may not be a solution for now. Our mesorah teaches that Eisav soneh es Yakov (and Sinai is called that because at the time Sinah descended to the world), that Yishamel is a pera adam and dislikes the children of Yitzchak. The exact nature and psychology of this pathos is very malleable, and impossible to accurately define - it can come from Eisav and Amaleik (notable examples being the 20th century Germans and the Spanish Inquisition) it can come from Yefes (the Hellenists, as well as centuries of Slavic hatred which stems from the Greek Orthodox Church, also Atheism which has led directly to communism), and obviously Arab hatred is it's own unique favor.
The far right Jew haters of today (and the Germans of yesteryear) make the error of assuming that the leftist atheist immoral Jews act the way they do because of the teachings of Judaism. We know this is wrong, and the reason they make this error is not because of a desire for truth but due to their own twisted evil hearts.
The complete solution obviously will only exist with the coming of Moshiach and removal of this evil Inclination, and until then we will remain afflicted with it.
That said, even during golus we must do our best hishtadlus to minimise our association with non Torah Jews. Certainly, we shouldn’t go running to the likes of Schumer when he’s handing out money, suddenly glad that he’s Anash - cause if we do, then why blame the rednecks for putting us all in the same basket.
Same applies to the Rally that caused so much friction a couple months ago - I think the same reasoning was applied by those who said don’t go. We do not align ourselves with non Torah Jews, because then we are always in the same basket as them, and that’s not true - whilst we can be ish echad velev echad, we are not whilst they have not done teshuvah.
It may not help us when they come to try put us in camps again, but it’s the minimum hishtadlus we must do right now.
I think there is truth to the antisemitic claim that we kinda take take take. We don't have our own land and we live as guests, and we do our own thing, never fully integrating.
As a kid I heard a speech from a Rabbi Mordechai Becher (Australian kiruv professional) who compared us to the Harry Potter books (which I shamefully never read but heard a lot about). The genius of the series is that these wizards and witches live amongst the muggles but have their own little world to themselves. We Jews, we live, say, in America, and we go to schools, but our own schools. We listen to music, but our own music. We eat in restaurants and pizza shops, but our own restaurants and pizza shops. We speak English, but our own English. We dress with style, but our own style. And so on. We live *amongst* them physically, but we really kinda have our own thing going. And they don't really like it. So while our crime rate is down and we drive carefully and talk respectfully, and they can't really pinpoint to why they hate us so, we are really living parallel lives, where we never really meet up and mingle with them.
This affects our relationship with the country at large. We live in America and even love it, but we are foremost Jews, not Americans. So in a way, we are enjoying the benefits of society but not quite being part of it, not giving back to in the way a "real American" would.
Sorry for the rant...
Nuance is required, as usual, and both sides are not willing to engage with nuance.