Very fascinating. I actually was looking into this recently, as I was always under the impression that all of Eretz Yisrael mentioned in parshas Masei came under Jewish control during the first temple period, as the Rambam in sefer hamitzvos (עשה קפז) states. Indeed, there was a full capture of the plishtim at some point, as mentioned in Divrei Hayamim: דברי הימים א' פרק י"ח (א) וַיְהִי֙ אַחֲרֵי־כֵ֔ן וַיַּ֥ךְ דָּוִ֛יד אֶת־פְּלִשְׁתִּ֖ים וַיַּכְנִיעֵ֑ם וַיִּקַּ֛ח אֶת־גַּ֥ת וּבְנֹתֶ֖יהָ מִיַּ֥ד פְּלִשְׁתִּֽים. It's eluded to in שמואל ב' פרק ח as well.
However, it says in Melachim II , 18 regarding Chizkiya הוא הכה את פלשתים עד עזה. Which makes it seem that they lost it to the Plishtim in the interm.
See Rav Chaim Kaniyesky in דרך אמונה - ביאור ההלכה הלכות תרומות פרק א הלכה ט who makes many observations about this topic of how much and how long עולי מצרים held on to the land of the plishtim, which parts more, (such as אשדוד ואשקלון) and which parts less (גרר, עזה ).
In other words, as this article points out, Plishtim will not come under FULL control until Moshiach.
This is quite some fresh air as opposed to Slifkin who laid out a plan that makes Moshiach look like quite an enticing alternative.
By the way, it is interesting to point out, that there are 5 groups of Plishtim, as it says in Yehoshua:
Now most of these places are known, as the map provided here shows, Ashdod in its known place today, as well as Ashkelon, with Ekron and Gat in their known places as well. But who and where were the עוים?
The avim lived from RAFAH TILL GAZA [city]. Now for all those familiar lately from following the news about Gaza city and the Rafah crossing, those are basically the borders of the Modern day Gaza strip! This is just aside from a drop of the north, taken from Gush Katif.
You are probably looking in Artscroll targum. Look in a more accurate version (They were much better with Targum on Navi; Bar Ilan is supposedly better). Second of all, the name דפיח is not found anywhere else in but רפיח is found also in ירושלמי פ"ו דשביעית ותוספתא שם in regards to cities around EY so I'd trust that girsa more.
In all of the chumashim that I have, it says דפיח. In the Tosefta that I have access to, it does list a city called רפח, it is listed next to חשבון, עמון ומואב, which would imply that this is a city in that area, not in Gaza. I would say that the Tosefta is inconclusive in this matter.
Wow!!
You're crazy for thinking that the Torah should shed any light on anything happening today tho...
Very fascinating. I actually was looking into this recently, as I was always under the impression that all of Eretz Yisrael mentioned in parshas Masei came under Jewish control during the first temple period, as the Rambam in sefer hamitzvos (עשה קפז) states. Indeed, there was a full capture of the plishtim at some point, as mentioned in Divrei Hayamim: דברי הימים א' פרק י"ח (א) וַיְהִי֙ אַחֲרֵי־כֵ֔ן וַיַּ֥ךְ דָּוִ֛יד אֶת־פְּלִשְׁתִּ֖ים וַיַּכְנִיעֵ֑ם וַיִּקַּ֛ח אֶת־גַּ֥ת וּבְנֹתֶ֖יהָ מִיַּ֥ד פְּלִשְׁתִּֽים. It's eluded to in שמואל ב' פרק ח as well.
However, it says in Melachim II , 18 regarding Chizkiya הוא הכה את פלשתים עד עזה. Which makes it seem that they lost it to the Plishtim in the interm.
See Rav Chaim Kaniyesky in דרך אמונה - ביאור ההלכה הלכות תרומות פרק א הלכה ט who makes many observations about this topic of how much and how long עולי מצרים held on to the land of the plishtim, which parts more, (such as אשדוד ואשקלון) and which parts less (גרר, עזה ).
In other words, as this article points out, Plishtim will not come under FULL control until Moshiach.
This is quite some fresh air as opposed to Slifkin who laid out a plan that makes Moshiach look like quite an enticing alternative.
By the way, it is interesting to point out, that there are 5 groups of Plishtim, as it says in Yehoshua:
יהושע פרק יג
חֲמֵ֣שֶׁת׀ סַרְנֵ֣י פְלִשְׁתִּ֗ים הָעַזָּתִ֤י וְהָאַשְׁדּוֹדִי֙ הָאֶשְׁקְלוֹנִ֣י הַגִּתִּ֔י וְהָעֶקְרוֹנִ֖י וְהָעַוִּֽים:
Now most of these places are known, as the map provided here shows, Ashdod in its known place today, as well as Ashkelon, with Ekron and Gat in their known places as well. But who and where were the עוים?
So on this the pasuk says in Devarim:
דברים פרק ב
(כג) וְהָֽעַוִּ֛ים הַיֹּשְׁבִ֥ים בַּחֲצֵרִ֖ים עַד־עַזָּ֑ה כַּפְתֹּרִים֙ הַיֹּצְאִ֣ים מִכַּפְתֹּ֔ר הִשְׁמִידֻ֖ם וַיֵּשְׁב֥וּ תַחְתָּֽם:
Targum Onkilos there says:
ועואי דיתבין ברפיח עד עזה
The avim lived from RAFAH TILL GAZA [city]. Now for all those familiar lately from following the news about Gaza city and the Rafah crossing, those are basically the borders of the Modern day Gaza strip! This is just aside from a drop of the north, taken from Gush Katif.
Thanks, great mareh mekomos!
The targum actually says בדפיח, with a dales, not a reish.
You are probably looking in Artscroll targum. Look in a more accurate version (They were much better with Targum on Navi; Bar Ilan is supposedly better). Second of all, the name דפיח is not found anywhere else in but רפיח is found also in ירושלמי פ"ו דשביעית ותוספתא שם in regards to cities around EY so I'd trust that girsa more.
In all of the chumashim that I have, it says דפיח. In the Tosefta that I have access to, it does list a city called רפח, it is listed next to חשבון, עמון ומואב, which would imply that this is a city in that area, not in Gaza. I would say that the Tosefta is inconclusive in this matter.
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, I think I will take something from this.
Wow, I want to read more!