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Happy's avatar

Bonus thread to address comments from RJ:

"Yekutiel Weiss

Constant economic propping up of Chareidi society will cause diversion of essential funds for essential public services for the Chareidim. So the state doesn't collapse and the Chareidim starve it still causes damage to the general public and unfairly shifts the tax burden to rest or the general public. WHY? אם לא עכשיו אימתי?!."

Uh, ok, I'm glad we are agreeing that the apocalyptic doom-mongering is a fantasy. "Diversion of essential public services to the chareidim"-If they are essential, they are essential for the chareidim as well, and it's not a diversion. "Unfairly"? There is nothing unfair about it. You set up a socialist system, you reap both the benefits and downsides of such a system. What's unfair is forcing Shomrei Torah u'Mitzvos (both of the chareidi and non-chareidi type) to pay for all sorts of useless courses in universities that will never translate into any material economic gain, including tons and tons of kefira. "אם לא עכשיו אימתי"- what exactly does he propose we do עכשיו? Chareidim are the ones setting up jobs programs for chareidim, certainly people like him are not doing it. See the last link in my post.

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Yehoshua's avatar

Excellent post! Especially that quote about economists and astrology. I feel that economic theory is the modern manifestation of the concept of מזל.

However one understands the mechanics of אין מזל לישראל, the concept behind it is that the אומות העולם, who are compared to the sun, have a compulsion to try to predict and control their future, even as they are proven wrong time after time, whereas ישראל is למעלה מן השמש and compared to the לבנה in that they realize that their future can vary greatly from the current apparent trajectory.

In general, I feel that Slifkin, Tzarich Iyun and the like are only hurting their cause by obsessing over the future, as no intelligent frum jew will take that seriously. If they would focus solely on the present, such as the supposed massive Chilul Hashem caused by the chareidi parties' supposed obsession with money, perhaps they would be taken more seriously. But perhaps they don't really believe that the chareidi parties are that obsessed with money, and therefore must redirect the conversation?

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