By the way everybody look at Scott Kahn's complaints here https://scottkahn.substack.com/p/taking-a-page-from-general-schwarzkopfs He is willing to assume (only for the sake of the argument) that the merit of Torah protects, but thinks chareidim don't have enough hakaras hatov. He should have seen Irrationalist Modoxism, where we express a ton of hakaras hatov.
I dont think hes trying. Torahs merit dosent necessarily exempt you from a מלחמת מצווה. The פטור for שבט לוי is for a מלחמת רשות. Why does the rambam write הכל הולכין by a מלחמת מצווה.
The issue hes ignoring is the concern of going off the derech.
What is the relationship between limud torah and divinie asistance in our present context? Assume that I am a chiloni or masorti in tzahal and HaShem Yitbarach punishes me for my chilul shabbat (or whatever other sin) by failing in battle or even by getting wounded or killed.
Torah protects, but shouldn't it protect those that actually live by it and study it (e.g. charedim and dati leumi)?
Shouldn't chilonim and masortim constantly fail? What have the goods deeds of the charedim anything to do with the chilonim and masortim (who are the majority of israels population)? If the argument is "well, but the chilonim and masortim and the zionists are protecting us through the army, so they have that merit", doesn't this contradict the sentence in the post that says "that victory is ONLY achieved through Divine assistance and not physical strength"? Chilonim and masortim do not believe in all or even most of rambams 13 principle, so why should they get help in battle. HaShem himself can directly take care of the charedim, even without secular tzahal
Rishon leTziyon Ovadia Yosef and Mordechai Eliyahu and others said that the shoah was a punishment for the ashkenazim for making up the haskala. Whifh means that the limud torah of the faithful ashkenazim, sephardim and mizrachim didn't help the holocaust victims, who were maskilim hence big sinners and heretics and worthy of punishment
We are all one nation. G-d made a covenant with all of us at Sinai even if some of us are more aware of that covenant than others. We always had sinners but the reward and punishment was collective, especially in the land of Israel ( as warned explicitly in the shema prayer).
Torah protects, but like everything else, free will is a player here, and if everything worked liked that than that's the end of that. As for what it does then, like everything else, creates merits. Additionally, כל ישראל ערבים זה לזה is a big point as well.
We believe that when God sends tragedies, he is really just sending us a wakeup call to do teshuva. Immersion in Torah learning is the most potent form of teshuva. So the Jewish response is to strengthen our avodas Hashem, primarily our Torah learning, and in that way come closer to Him until He brings us salvation. Now, we can't change the world, we can't go around changing those who don't believe in God. All we can do, and therefore all He asks us to do, is change ourselves. We can do our own personal teshuva, our leaders can encourage as more communal teshuva. But more than that is not in our hands. And more than that is not what He and for.
Probably, if we chareidim all do proper teshuva, it will have a trickle down effect on everyone - we believe they were are all one body and we all affect each other, and being that the chareidim are 'the brain,' we have more control to positively affect them then they do us. But that is a longer discussion...
I'm not sure what slifkin was going for in his latest post. Is he finally conceding that it really is the keeping of the Torah that protects? Is he saying what he's implying, and actually saying straight out, that the reason the soldiers will win (God willing) is because they are protecting those who keep the Torah? Doesn't that mean, essentially, that the driving force of the win is the fact that the people that are being protected by the soldiers are ovdei Hashem? And doesn't that make the soldiers "second class?" For example, in the yissachar-zevulun relationship, isn't it obvious that the yissachar is the "ikkar" while the zevulun is the "tafel?" Not in a bad way, and they both get equal schar, but I bet you bottom dollar that zevulun darn appreciates the yissachar he is devoting his life for.
He weaseled out of this a bit by claiming that it doesn't matter if those that should be learning are actually learning, because since the soldiers are doing it for that cause, that itself is protection. But first of all, is that at all true of the soldiers who hates avodas Hashem and is doing this only to protect a secular "proud" Israel?
But more importantly, did slifkin just change his whole tune and concede that it is the devotion to God that is truly what is protecting? And if so, why specifically the soldier's avodas Hashem over the guy in the beis medrash?
The whole point of his post is the weaselly part- that the success of the soldiers has nothing to do with the merit of the learners. He is not changing his tune, just throwing fecal matter at the wall.
Lol to be clear, I'm aware that he didn't actually change his tune. I'm merely pointing out how absurd he sounds by basically admitting that the devotion to God's will is what really protects from a Jewish perspective...
Jewish means part of the bond Hashem made with His people. That bond began with Avraham and was expanded and defined generation after generation, until Arvos Moav.
So Malkitzedek was not Jewish, at least in that sense.
Derech hashem makes the case that there was only a possibility for a bechira for one nation after the Dor Haflaga, so Malki Tzedek missed the threshold, even if he may have been worthy.
No dude, you missed the point. I used that term orchidectomy in reference to the question surrounding it. When in fact did "being Jewish" start. Did it start with Avraham? Did it start by matan torah? What about anyone who followed Hashem and the Torah before even Avraham?
There are entire seforim written about this question by people much greater than you and me. There is even reference in rishonim to this end. The Mishna lamelech filled chapters of his parashas drachim regarding this question. It's an old q which most of us here have come across.
So, was Yosef Jewish? Was shem Jewish? These are legit questions. And you're more than welcome to ponder them in your own time. That's what I was referring to..
I saw this survey. I was very surpised. I have to admit antisemitism (not just actual anti-zionism) have really exploded.
We do live in an era of radicalization:
-harvard student justify holocaust
-Things that were once only stated in private conversations or by settlers in the west bank or by rabbi kahane and rabbi ginsburgh and their students, have now entered the highest echelons of israeli politics and military.
- Around the world we have ethnic cleansing and ethnic conflicts again (israel/palestine, armenia/azerbeijan, burma civil war, ukraine war, african civil conflicts, turkey against kurds, ethiopia war, sudan war, race riots in the west like blm riots)
But you can see it from a different perspective: the people in the survey are very young. They have time to change.
Before becoming a practising and observing Muslim, I used to be a very harsh bosnian nationalist and very racist and even genocidal towards serbs.
When I was in school, I had a german friend. He had blonde hair and blue eyes, he literary looked like these hitlerjungen in the old pictures. He was a neo-nazi. You can imagine he was very antisemitic (used to sing holocaust gloryfing songs) and very islamophobic, too. It was a phase he was going through that lasted half a year (he was not a nazi when I got to know him). Though I was secular at that time and very nationalist, I never went that far (except with serbs, lol), so I used to question him on his nazism (we were in the same class and even seated together). I remember, one time he couldn't remember the correct spelling of a german word, so he asked me. I laughed and told him:"Ironic that you as a german ask me, a foreigner". He looked at me with a death glare with his blue eyes and just said:"Halt die Klappe", Shut up.
He eventually left nazism. He loved beer and smoking (to the point he maybe became addicted) and he thus made a lot of new contact with non-germans, which maybe eliminated his nazism (we had a very great and nice friend, who was a refugee from afghanistan)
If you don't mind me asking, how many languages do you know? I am continually amazed by Europeans who know between 5 and 10 languages. I think the problem with us Americans is that we live in huge country with 330m people and they all speak the same language, so there is no need to learn different languages. But it's a shame.
Specifically Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian (which is all pretty much the same thing) as the mother tounge, german, english anď arabic.
Theoretically, you might say I speak five languages, if you add yiddish, which I do not experience as a language of its own, but just a jewish dialect of southern german.
Since I am planning to go to malaysia, I will try to learn malaysian whic is said to be very easy, even though they say english and arabic there suffice.
I tried some hebrew, too, but I am not sure whether I will pursue that since I am not jewish nor living in sirael, so I do not see any point in that.
I once knew how to read hebrew from the chumash, but my hebrew reading skill became rusty because it became obsolete after I found this website that transliterates the hebrew text into latin script: https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-1.htm
How did you guys learn hebrew? Was it all from yeshiva and kollel or you spend some time in israel? And how widrspread is hebrew among the orthodox in galut? What about yiddish
Scriptural hebrew is taught in school as part of learning Chumash. Mishnaic/Talmudic Hebrew and Aramaic is taught as part of those studies. Girls usually learn Hebrew in a more structured way, which very often will include the basics of Modern Hebrew as well as dikduk. Yiddish is not taught, but is spoken at home by Chassidic communities. In many yeshivos, many of the lectures are given in a very simple Yiddish which is easy to pick up without lessons.
It's funny most of us Americans don't ever speak Hebrew. We kill ourselves and break it teeth over it when we go learn in Israel. We just have this other language which we translate in our heads everytime we pray or learn. All prayers and all learning (pretty much) is done in Hebrew/Aramaic
Maybe I'm confusing two things, but for example, when I daven (or learn), I translate each word. I think in English. So despite knowing those other languages fluently - I can write, read and even speak a (yeshivish) Hebrew, Aramaic and yiddish - I wasn't counting then as "knowing" those languages. But that's probably how everyone works when it's not their current primary language, and if so, I retract
i can hope you're right, but your friend had social pressure to change. this ideology is growing like a cancer and even if they grow up and become more nuanced, chances are their core beliefs will still be israel=oppressor, palestine=oppressed. what that can mean for jews in israel, and all over, is nothing but frightening.
David habibi, I also think that palestine is the oppressed one and we discussed this extensively in the previous comments. And I am not antisemitic (and I guess you guys do not see me as that either, in worst case just totally misguided).
The explosion of genuine and real antisemitism (discounting antizionism) is not necessarily related to ones perception of the conflict (you see far right antisemites and white nationalists expressing support for israel). Its just that people who were always hateful towards jews or heard or read some antisemitic stuff somewhere now feel validated to express that by using Palestinians as their justification. Harvard students who always kinda noticed that there are disproporinately many ashkenazim among the students or professors (and especially donors) now feel validated in their beliefs about jewish subversive influence, especially when you tie that to the actions of the israel lobby in d.c. One very recent study from the university of washington showed, that over 80% of professors feel pressured to censor critical content about israel (against palestinians only 11%). https://www.reddit.com/r/Jewish/comments/18jefz6/most_us_scholars_on_the_mideast_are_supposedly/ The university professors now feel their time has come to speak against what they see as jewish influence. So why does their criticism of israel turn into antisemitism? Its an example how leftists exaggerate with their virtue signaling, just as when they go overboard with anti-white rhetoric while attempting to correct the historic injustices to blacks. And this is where the right-wing comes in: people like tucker carlson and candace owens question, why jewish professors and donors are now complaining about leftist antisemitism at campuses, but said nothing about anti-white rhetoric. And herre comes the replacement theory and soros and the far right rabitt hole etc.
In short, the recent war and the actions of israel and its lobby revived the global and old beliefs about jewish subservient influence.
When it comes to my friend, he did not really have social pressure. His parents and teachers were against his nazism, but all the other students were just indifferent, not because they were nazis, but they just didn't take him seriously.
He was very well connected in the neo nazi scene (was a member of neo nazi groups, took part in neo nazi campings, showed me pictures of him and his friends at the campfire saluting with the hitler salute besides a huge waving swastika flag). He also had an uncle who was a nazi (thats a cliche in many german families,,that every family has an uncle who is far right)
rafael sadiqi (is that the correct word?), it's not the rise of antisemitism i'm worried about right now, though of course that too; it's the anti-zionist retoretic that concerns me as an immediate danger. there is so much disinformation - from what i understand, you fall for this narrative as well (i use that terminology with the presumption that I have it right, as is my whole take over here) - that comes from the anti-israel/anti-america ideology that can be super damaging to israel's whole existence.
i won't read into your mind specifically, but most people who accept your narrative of oct. 7th (which is a pretty extreme position here in america), also think there should be an immediate ceasefire (many held this even before day one, to be clear).
most people with your narrative think that there is indiscriminate bombing going on by israel, despite lack of proof and counterevidence stating otherwise. most people with your narrative believe that a two state solution should be pushed right now; some think by the PA, or something similar to that, which is simply not rooted in reality.
most with your ideas also think that the palestinians really want peace and it is israel who keeps messing this up.
most think that israel should be defunded and use no aerial weapons at all. they should just send "special forces" (like in a movie) and win like a bunch of superheroes.the list goes on.
if hamas isn't just some freedom fighter group but they are terrorists who want to destroy israel (like iran, their supplier who is not being oppressed, just saying...) all these ideas are simply not rooted in reality and ultimately call for the death of many jews. of course if your narrative is correct, this is all not true and israel is the oppressor and we are just being mean, but this is the danger of politics. i'm happy to discuss online why i believe my narrative is correct, but assuming it is, there are real dangers here to innocent jews. if people like cenk uyger (just to use a random example) get any more political power (and no, he won't win the election - even he knows that. but realistically, people like him can start putting pressure on those like biden and cause actual damage to the israeli cause)
to be clear, i am no zionist (in the political sense) and they should not do things that make them look like colonialists, like the west bank saga, but i am a realist and i care if my brothers in israel are safe
and btw, rafael, i'm not going to get involved in the who is more of a victim - you're more than welcome to do the research yourself - but facts on the ground seem to show that antisemitism is heavily stronger than islamophobia, at least in the US. and i don't mean just since oct. 7th, tho that too, but always.
Yeah, they do think that you have a victim complex.
Norman Finkelstein in his book the holocaust industry or even israeli ministers like shulamit aloni claim that israel uses especially the holocaust as a justification and red herring.
Chicago univerisity historian Peter novick in his book "the holocaust in american life" writes that up to the yom kippur war the holocaust was ignored by most mainstream historians, media, journalists and politicians (with short revival of interest like the eichmann trial) and only later israel took it and popularized it "to discredit any criticism against israel as antisemitism", as Novick says.
Zionist activist and historian Lucy Davidovics complained in her book "the holocaust and the historians" that nobody had any interest in the topic.
The reason why the Muslim students complain about islamophobia is cuz islamophobia has risen in the US. Antisemitism rose more, yeah, but thats just a statistical comparison. The Muslims in US had islamophobia in the past, now they have more, so they want to fight that. Its very straightforward. Mathematically, this does not negate that antisemitism has risen even more, and I think jews should do something about that. Another reason why they see themselves as victims is cuz they strongly connect to palestine and, as we discussed in previous posts, see palestine as the attacked one.
Another reason for the belief in ones victimhood is that the Muslims or even any other minority group do not have a powerful lobby in washington, are not disproportionately represented in the media and don't have an adl that trains every fbi agent (adl took pride in that on its public twitter account, you can imagine the comments below it https://twitter.com/ADL/status/472384478464061441?lang=de)
Sorry for asking it this way, but for any unlearned person who lives in the US, and knows about radical Islamic terrorism like ISIS Al quida, and other groups that kill non-Zionists, sees the major fighting all over the middle east, sees clips of Muslim leaders calling for Sharia law in the UK and other countries, calling the West infidels ect. what do you expect of him? Dismiss those as the minority? How can one tell the difference between the radical and non-radical? What can you say to calm him and reassure him that there is an easy way to let in millions of Muslims into the country with a perfect screening process that their fears will not be realized?
Again, I apologize for asking, and I don't think all muslims are like this, but if the above is the reason for "Islamophobia" I'd like to understand what any good Muslim can say to reassure someone with these concerns, and why such concerns should be held against him.
Additionally, the way I understand the Muslim claim to the land of Israel is that it is against Sharia law, as non-Muslims should not be allowed to rule Muslims. I understand that from a religious point of view, and Muslims are entitled to that belief. What I don't understand is the difference between an "apartheid state" and a state with Sharia law, giving non-Muslims Dhimmi status. What is the legal claim here?
Yosef Hatzadik
וכי הוא מלך
This week's Sedra
I'll be honest, I wasn't thinking of this but it is probably a better answer than the one I was thinking of. I was thinking of Shoftim 9:6
Nice, but was he jewish?
By the way everybody look at Scott Kahn's complaints here https://scottkahn.substack.com/p/taking-a-page-from-general-schwarzkopfs He is willing to assume (only for the sake of the argument) that the merit of Torah protects, but thinks chareidim don't have enough hakaras hatov. He should have seen Irrationalist Modoxism, where we express a ton of hakaras hatov.
He probably means israeli chareidim
Then he is also wrong.
Also very difficult for him to argue against Torah protecting without bringing even 1 Chazal. Not a very convincing piece.
I dont think hes trying. Torahs merit dosent necessarily exempt you from a מלחמת מצווה. The פטור for שבט לוי is for a מלחמת רשות. Why does the rambam write הכל הולכין by a מלחמת מצווה.
The issue hes ignoring is the concern of going off the derech.
Malkitzedek melech sholeym. Shem Ben noach.
Excellent compilation of sources. Thank you for posting.
I have a theological question.
What is the relationship between limud torah and divinie asistance in our present context? Assume that I am a chiloni or masorti in tzahal and HaShem Yitbarach punishes me for my chilul shabbat (or whatever other sin) by failing in battle or even by getting wounded or killed.
Torah protects, but shouldn't it protect those that actually live by it and study it (e.g. charedim and dati leumi)?
Shouldn't chilonim and masortim constantly fail? What have the goods deeds of the charedim anything to do with the chilonim and masortim (who are the majority of israels population)? If the argument is "well, but the chilonim and masortim and the zionists are protecting us through the army, so they have that merit", doesn't this contradict the sentence in the post that says "that victory is ONLY achieved through Divine assistance and not physical strength"? Chilonim and masortim do not believe in all or even most of rambams 13 principle, so why should they get help in battle. HaShem himself can directly take care of the charedim, even without secular tzahal
Rishon leTziyon Ovadia Yosef and Mordechai Eliyahu and others said that the shoah was a punishment for the ashkenazim for making up the haskala. Whifh means that the limud torah of the faithful ashkenazim, sephardim and mizrachim didn't help the holocaust victims, who were maskilim hence big sinners and heretics and worthy of punishment
We are all one nation. G-d made a covenant with all of us at Sinai even if some of us are more aware of that covenant than others. We always had sinners but the reward and punishment was collective, especially in the land of Israel ( as warned explicitly in the shema prayer).
Torah protects, but like everything else, free will is a player here, and if everything worked liked that than that's the end of that. As for what it does then, like everything else, creates merits. Additionally, כל ישראל ערבים זה לזה is a big point as well.
Exactly.
We also have to remember הנהגת הייחוד
Forgive my ignorance but what are you referencing
רמח"ל- הנהגת המשפט והנהגת הייחוד
Explained in דעת תבונות
We believe that when God sends tragedies, he is really just sending us a wakeup call to do teshuva. Immersion in Torah learning is the most potent form of teshuva. So the Jewish response is to strengthen our avodas Hashem, primarily our Torah learning, and in that way come closer to Him until He brings us salvation. Now, we can't change the world, we can't go around changing those who don't believe in God. All we can do, and therefore all He asks us to do, is change ourselves. We can do our own personal teshuva, our leaders can encourage as more communal teshuva. But more than that is not in our hands. And more than that is not what He and for.
Probably, if we chareidim all do proper teshuva, it will have a trickle down effect on everyone - we believe they were are all one body and we all affect each other, and being that the chareidim are 'the brain,' we have more control to positively affect them then they do us. But that is a longer discussion...
Great post happy!
I'm not sure what slifkin was going for in his latest post. Is he finally conceding that it really is the keeping of the Torah that protects? Is he saying what he's implying, and actually saying straight out, that the reason the soldiers will win (God willing) is because they are protecting those who keep the Torah? Doesn't that mean, essentially, that the driving force of the win is the fact that the people that are being protected by the soldiers are ovdei Hashem? And doesn't that make the soldiers "second class?" For example, in the yissachar-zevulun relationship, isn't it obvious that the yissachar is the "ikkar" while the zevulun is the "tafel?" Not in a bad way, and they both get equal schar, but I bet you bottom dollar that zevulun darn appreciates the yissachar he is devoting his life for.
He weaseled out of this a bit by claiming that it doesn't matter if those that should be learning are actually learning, because since the soldiers are doing it for that cause, that itself is protection. But first of all, is that at all true of the soldiers who hates avodas Hashem and is doing this only to protect a secular "proud" Israel?
But more importantly, did slifkin just change his whole tune and concede that it is the devotion to God that is truly what is protecting? And if so, why specifically the soldier's avodas Hashem over the guy in the beis medrash?
Someone help me out please.
The whole point of his post is the weaselly part- that the success of the soldiers has nothing to do with the merit of the learners. He is not changing his tune, just throwing fecal matter at the wall.
Lol to be clear, I'm aware that he didn't actually change his tune. I'm merely pointing out how absurd he sounds by basically admitting that the devotion to God's will is what really protects from a Jewish perspective...
You know what his intent is by his restricting comments to paid subscribers only. There's a pattern here.
True that man
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine: and he was [is] the priest of the most high God.
I was thinking that but was he jewish?
Jewish means part of the bond Hashem made with His people. That bond began with Avraham and was expanded and defined generation after generation, until Arvos Moav.
So Malkitzedek was not Jewish, at least in that sense.
Derech hashem makes the case that there was only a possibility for a bechira for one nation after the Dor Haflaga, so Malki Tzedek missed the threshold, even if he may have been worthy.
What is 'Jewish'?
Exactly.
You used a term. Can you not even define it? To the extent of weaselly insults when asked to do so.
And no doubt you believe you 'know how to learn'.
I'm not sure which insults you are referring to right now
No dude, you missed the point. I used that term orchidectomy in reference to the question surrounding it. When in fact did "being Jewish" start. Did it start with Avraham? Did it start by matan torah? What about anyone who followed Hashem and the Torah before even Avraham?
There are entire seforim written about this question by people much greater than you and me. There is even reference in rishonim to this end. The Mishna lamelech filled chapters of his parashas drachim regarding this question. It's an old q which most of us here have come across.
So, was Yosef Jewish? Was shem Jewish? These are legit questions. And you're more than welcome to ponder them in your own time. That's what I was referring to..
"orchidectomy"? I googled that, I am not sure if that is the word you want. When did you use that word, anyway?
Parshas Derochim is not about the avos being 'Jewish'. It's about whether the avos were no longer bnei noach.
I saw this survey. I was very surpised. I have to admit antisemitism (not just actual anti-zionism) have really exploded.
We do live in an era of radicalization:
-harvard student justify holocaust
-Things that were once only stated in private conversations or by settlers in the west bank or by rabbi kahane and rabbi ginsburgh and their students, have now entered the highest echelons of israeli politics and military.
- Around the world we have ethnic cleansing and ethnic conflicts again (israel/palestine, armenia/azerbeijan, burma civil war, ukraine war, african civil conflicts, turkey against kurds, ethiopia war, sudan war, race riots in the west like blm riots)
But you can see it from a different perspective: the people in the survey are very young. They have time to change.
Before becoming a practising and observing Muslim, I used to be a very harsh bosnian nationalist and very racist and even genocidal towards serbs.
When I was in school, I had a german friend. He had blonde hair and blue eyes, he literary looked like these hitlerjungen in the old pictures. He was a neo-nazi. You can imagine he was very antisemitic (used to sing holocaust gloryfing songs) and very islamophobic, too. It was a phase he was going through that lasted half a year (he was not a nazi when I got to know him). Though I was secular at that time and very nationalist, I never went that far (except with serbs, lol), so I used to question him on his nazism (we were in the same class and even seated together). I remember, one time he couldn't remember the correct spelling of a german word, so he asked me. I laughed and told him:"Ironic that you as a german ask me, a foreigner". He looked at me with a death glare with his blue eyes and just said:"Halt die Klappe", Shut up.
He eventually left nazism. He loved beer and smoking (to the point he maybe became addicted) and he thus made a lot of new contact with non-germans, which maybe eliminated his nazism (we had a very great and nice friend, who was a refugee from afghanistan)
If you don't mind me asking, how many languages do you know? I am continually amazed by Europeans who know between 5 and 10 languages. I think the problem with us Americans is that we live in huge country with 330m people and they all speak the same language, so there is no need to learn different languages. But it's a shame.
I speak four, by the grace of Allah.
Specifically Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian (which is all pretty much the same thing) as the mother tounge, german, english anď arabic.
Theoretically, you might say I speak five languages, if you add yiddish, which I do not experience as a language of its own, but just a jewish dialect of southern german.
Since I am planning to go to malaysia, I will try to learn malaysian whic is said to be very easy, even though they say english and arabic there suffice.
I tried some hebrew, too, but I am not sure whether I will pursue that since I am not jewish nor living in sirael, so I do not see any point in that.
I once knew how to read hebrew from the chumash, but my hebrew reading skill became rusty because it became obsolete after I found this website that transliterates the hebrew text into latin script: https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-1.htm
How did you guys learn hebrew? Was it all from yeshiva and kollel or you spend some time in israel? And how widrspread is hebrew among the orthodox in galut? What about yiddish
Scriptural hebrew is taught in school as part of learning Chumash. Mishnaic/Talmudic Hebrew and Aramaic is taught as part of those studies. Girls usually learn Hebrew in a more structured way, which very often will include the basics of Modern Hebrew as well as dikduk. Yiddish is not taught, but is spoken at home by Chassidic communities. In many yeshivos, many of the lectures are given in a very simple Yiddish which is easy to pick up without lessons.
It's funny most of us Americans don't ever speak Hebrew. We kill ourselves and break it teeth over it when we go learn in Israel. We just have this other language which we translate in our heads everytime we pray or learn. All prayers and all learning (pretty much) is done in Hebrew/Aramaic
I don't know about you, but I speak, read, and write, Modern Hebrew, Talmudic Hebrew/Aramaic, Yiddish, and English.
I think anyone who put extra effort into it succeeded in mastering these languages, especially most who spent a year or two in Israel,
Maybe I'm confusing two things, but for example, when I daven (or learn), I translate each word. I think in English. So despite knowing those other languages fluently - I can write, read and even speak a (yeshivish) Hebrew, Aramaic and yiddish - I wasn't counting then as "knowing" those languages. But that's probably how everyone works when it's not their current primary language, and if so, I retract
i can hope you're right, but your friend had social pressure to change. this ideology is growing like a cancer and even if they grow up and become more nuanced, chances are their core beliefs will still be israel=oppressor, palestine=oppressed. what that can mean for jews in israel, and all over, is nothing but frightening.
David habibi, I also think that palestine is the oppressed one and we discussed this extensively in the previous comments. And I am not antisemitic (and I guess you guys do not see me as that either, in worst case just totally misguided).
The explosion of genuine and real antisemitism (discounting antizionism) is not necessarily related to ones perception of the conflict (you see far right antisemites and white nationalists expressing support for israel). Its just that people who were always hateful towards jews or heard or read some antisemitic stuff somewhere now feel validated to express that by using Palestinians as their justification. Harvard students who always kinda noticed that there are disproporinately many ashkenazim among the students or professors (and especially donors) now feel validated in their beliefs about jewish subversive influence, especially when you tie that to the actions of the israel lobby in d.c. One very recent study from the university of washington showed, that over 80% of professors feel pressured to censor critical content about israel (against palestinians only 11%). https://www.reddit.com/r/Jewish/comments/18jefz6/most_us_scholars_on_the_mideast_are_supposedly/ The university professors now feel their time has come to speak against what they see as jewish influence. So why does their criticism of israel turn into antisemitism? Its an example how leftists exaggerate with their virtue signaling, just as when they go overboard with anti-white rhetoric while attempting to correct the historic injustices to blacks. And this is where the right-wing comes in: people like tucker carlson and candace owens question, why jewish professors and donors are now complaining about leftist antisemitism at campuses, but said nothing about anti-white rhetoric. And herre comes the replacement theory and soros and the far right rabitt hole etc.
In short, the recent war and the actions of israel and its lobby revived the global and old beliefs about jewish subservient influence.
When it comes to my friend, he did not really have social pressure. His parents and teachers were against his nazism, but all the other students were just indifferent, not because they were nazis, but they just didn't take him seriously.
He was very well connected in the neo nazi scene (was a member of neo nazi groups, took part in neo nazi campings, showed me pictures of him and his friends at the campfire saluting with the hitler salute besides a huge waving swastika flag). He also had an uncle who was a nazi (thats a cliche in many german families,,that every family has an uncle who is far right)
rafael sadiqi (is that the correct word?), it's not the rise of antisemitism i'm worried about right now, though of course that too; it's the anti-zionist retoretic that concerns me as an immediate danger. there is so much disinformation - from what i understand, you fall for this narrative as well (i use that terminology with the presumption that I have it right, as is my whole take over here) - that comes from the anti-israel/anti-america ideology that can be super damaging to israel's whole existence.
i won't read into your mind specifically, but most people who accept your narrative of oct. 7th (which is a pretty extreme position here in america), also think there should be an immediate ceasefire (many held this even before day one, to be clear).
most people with your narrative think that there is indiscriminate bombing going on by israel, despite lack of proof and counterevidence stating otherwise. most people with your narrative believe that a two state solution should be pushed right now; some think by the PA, or something similar to that, which is simply not rooted in reality.
most with your ideas also think that the palestinians really want peace and it is israel who keeps messing this up.
most think that israel should be defunded and use no aerial weapons at all. they should just send "special forces" (like in a movie) and win like a bunch of superheroes.the list goes on.
if hamas isn't just some freedom fighter group but they are terrorists who want to destroy israel (like iran, their supplier who is not being oppressed, just saying...) all these ideas are simply not rooted in reality and ultimately call for the death of many jews. of course if your narrative is correct, this is all not true and israel is the oppressor and we are just being mean, but this is the danger of politics. i'm happy to discuss online why i believe my narrative is correct, but assuming it is, there are real dangers here to innocent jews. if people like cenk uyger (just to use a random example) get any more political power (and no, he won't win the election - even he knows that. but realistically, people like him can start putting pressure on those like biden and cause actual damage to the israeli cause)
to be clear, i am no zionist (in the political sense) and they should not do things that make them look like colonialists, like the west bank saga, but i am a realist and i care if my brothers in israel are safe
and btw, rafael, i'm not going to get involved in the who is more of a victim - you're more than welcome to do the research yourself - but facts on the ground seem to show that antisemitism is heavily stronger than islamophobia, at least in the US. and i don't mean just since oct. 7th, tho that too, but always.
I don't dispute that antisemitism in us is stronger.
And btw you got the sadiqi part right
(Btw: is habib an actual hebrew word, or is it just informal slang adopted from arabic?)
Yeah, they do think that you have a victim complex.
Norman Finkelstein in his book the holocaust industry or even israeli ministers like shulamit aloni claim that israel uses especially the holocaust as a justification and red herring.
Chicago univerisity historian Peter novick in his book "the holocaust in american life" writes that up to the yom kippur war the holocaust was ignored by most mainstream historians, media, journalists and politicians (with short revival of interest like the eichmann trial) and only later israel took it and popularized it "to discredit any criticism against israel as antisemitism", as Novick says.
Zionist activist and historian Lucy Davidovics complained in her book "the holocaust and the historians" that nobody had any interest in the topic.
The reason why the Muslim students complain about islamophobia is cuz islamophobia has risen in the US. Antisemitism rose more, yeah, but thats just a statistical comparison. The Muslims in US had islamophobia in the past, now they have more, so they want to fight that. Its very straightforward. Mathematically, this does not negate that antisemitism has risen even more, and I think jews should do something about that. Another reason why they see themselves as victims is cuz they strongly connect to palestine and, as we discussed in previous posts, see palestine as the attacked one.
Another reason for the belief in ones victimhood is that the Muslims or even any other minority group do not have a powerful lobby in washington, are not disproportionately represented in the media and don't have an adl that trains every fbi agent (adl took pride in that on its public twitter account, you can imagine the comments below it https://twitter.com/ADL/status/472384478464061441?lang=de)
Sorry for asking it this way, but for any unlearned person who lives in the US, and knows about radical Islamic terrorism like ISIS Al quida, and other groups that kill non-Zionists, sees the major fighting all over the middle east, sees clips of Muslim leaders calling for Sharia law in the UK and other countries, calling the West infidels ect. what do you expect of him? Dismiss those as the minority? How can one tell the difference between the radical and non-radical? What can you say to calm him and reassure him that there is an easy way to let in millions of Muslims into the country with a perfect screening process that their fears will not be realized?
Again, I apologize for asking, and I don't think all muslims are like this, but if the above is the reason for "Islamophobia" I'd like to understand what any good Muslim can say to reassure someone with these concerns, and why such concerns should be held against him.
Additionally, the way I understand the Muslim claim to the land of Israel is that it is against Sharia law, as non-Muslims should not be allowed to rule Muslims. I understand that from a religious point of view, and Muslims are entitled to that belief. What I don't understand is the difference between an "apartheid state" and a state with Sharia law, giving non-Muslims Dhimmi status. What is the legal claim here?
I didn't consider that explicit given that most meforshim explain it as referring to Hashem. You didn't think it would be that easy, did you? 😂
Was thinking that but the question was where in an explicit passuk.