Cute article, but honestly, this has nothing to do with the original letter. Chasidim are very happy not to be under a large banner and just listen to their Rebbe. If all litvaks were like that it would be fine but it isn't.
Chassidim don't get together on a variety of things? What about the agudah party? The point is, whoever wrote this letter imagines for some reason the Agudah only represents his own narrow hashkafa and is mad that "Lakewood" gets a voice on it.
The Aguda party in Israel is mainly about politics and public participation of certain events. When it comes to דעת תורה on a specific matter, chasidim only care what their Rebbe has to say. Also, even in politics, if they cannot come to an agreement, the Chasidim will still know what their Rebbe holds, as opposed to the US aguda. I think that's what the writer had in mind. Additionally, he had no issue with lakewood having a voice if they cared for what Aguda had to say but they don't. I see you and other people read it differently so I can't say for sure.
Ok. But I think the same is true for yeshivish. Nobody cares about the daas Torah of "the moetzes", despite the modox conspiracy theories, only about their personal Gadol or Rav. And that's exactly what happened here. No statement from the moetzes, a statement from 5 Gedolim on the matter, and he gets mad about "Lakewood".
That could be, but in that case, his other point is correct, that the Moetzes is irrelevant.
BTW, it's really ironic how the main-stream chareidi society is being bashed from both sides. Slifkin has been ranting all week that the Aguda did not endorse the rally, and in the meantime, Satmar Rebbe (Z.) gives a public speech denouncing Aguda for completely supporting the Zionist rally, and with in the community, some are bashing the Aguda for not being united and others saying no-one cares about them anyway!
Yes, he can't even produce thought-through parody leitzonus, never mind acknowledging that there even are issues that need addressing in the community. How could he, he is a paid up gadolator.
But I do think that anonymous aguda guy has a point. Lemaaseh black hatters were largely absent from the rally. At the end of the day the oilam hayeshivas does run kind of as a network and they didn't show up
Did you ask people in Lakewood, Chaim Berlin, Beis Hatalmud, Passaic, South Fallsburg, etc why they didn't go? Do you understand the reasoning and merely disagree with it?
Most people in Lakewood I spoke to believed that the chances of any benefit from this rally were pretty low, and therefore learning takes precedent. The Rabbis' March was to draw attention to something that was being ignored. Here, the politicians were not ignoring it, and there was no reason to draw awareness.
Indeed, the 'kidish hashem' that people are talking about, the achdus, the kiruv opportunities of Rabbi Eisenman etc. show that many others also believed that the political benefit was not that important. Achdus, kiruv etc are not as important as a bochur/yungerman's learning. The Olam Hayeshivos knew and recognized its priorities.
i've expressed my opinion many times on rj. the reason to go is very simple. there has been an unimaginable tragedy and beyond the tragedy there was a huge unprecedented denial in real time Rl. this is not a group of boring history deniers; this has been a political craziness where the clearest narrative has been so easily pushed in the wrong direction immediately. there were riots before any bombing started. and this has backing form the highest levels of governments throughout the world, even in america. baruch Hashem biden and co. are on israel's side, but the need to pressure him the other way is obvious. a rally has been shown to be an effective way to show support. al pi teva - imho - this was a very important initiative.
then opposition came out from the higher ups in chareidi communities not to go, and the reasons given were silly, to put it mildly.
the only taina acceptable was that the hishtadlus here is not really helpful anyways. which i disagree with, but that's at least an opinion worth discussing. but this taina was encompassed within all the other silly tainos. you and i know that most people in lakewood, chaim berlin, passaic etc didn't go is because...no one was going. the reasons weren't even that important. it just wasn't the 'thing' that we are doing. the reasons were afterthoughts.
who did you speak to in lakewood? chevra? me too. the sentiment was just that this wasn't important. because the rabonim in lakewood didn't think it was. because there were christians there. o and an actress. Rl. there should've been a rabbi with a long white beard, he would convince biden more than that actress.
"we fight physical sakana with tefila" was another sentiment going around as liquid as the other tainas. o ya - and also what are the chances this will help anyways. they were talking the talk
bH there was a - surprisingly - close to 300k attending and the yeshivishe community was hardly missed, but no one knew that before. there was an expected 7-20k. they could've doubled it.
i'm not mad about the lack of attendance. i'm disappointed about the fact that everyone decided for themselves and didn't speak to their rabbeim
and that when the roshei yeshiva of lakewood put out their tainos people just went with it, agree or not.
to be perfectly clear, i don't think there is a better community to be a part of. we are the only ones who are machshiv Hashem's heilige Torah kidibai; who appreciate what iyun is. but that doesn't mean that there aren't issues that don't need to be fixed.
That has nothing to do with the issue. It wasn't about the Yeshivas not going but Balabatim having no leadership, and moetzes members not getting their opinion out because the more Yeshivish disapproved.
I don't think it's about who came and who didn't. If that was the full Aguda's position that's one thing but it wasn't.
You are raising a separate issue that was not addressed in the letter. I hear that loud and clear, and though I wasn't sure about joining, only after did I realize what a national stage it had and how bad it looked that Yeshivas are indifferent. I don't think most people realized that beforehand. (I know, Rabbi Feldman was the opposite in that regard. ולי צריך עיון)
How dare you. I have it on high authority Chabad merits (if that's the correct word) two mentions, like Satmar, l'havdil. One for the meshichists and one for everyone else. I don't know if both deserve gasps or not.
If I understand R' Happy correctly, this 'crisis' in the Agudah that Slifkin is busy goading about where different communities within the Agudah umbrella follow their respective rabbis is about just as big of a crisis of the individual chassidusen, although all under the general term "chassidish," all follow their respective rebbes.
I am confused. Which Sadigerer Rebbe are you talking to?
Why does that matter? I'm just an anonymous disgruntled Sadigur Chassid with important criticism and you should listen to me.
Cute article, but honestly, this has nothing to do with the original letter. Chasidim are very happy not to be under a large banner and just listen to their Rebbe. If all litvaks were like that it would be fine but it isn't.
Chassidim don't get together on a variety of things? What about the agudah party? The point is, whoever wrote this letter imagines for some reason the Agudah only represents his own narrow hashkafa and is mad that "Lakewood" gets a voice on it.
The Aguda party in Israel is mainly about politics and public participation of certain events. When it comes to דעת תורה on a specific matter, chasidim only care what their Rebbe has to say. Also, even in politics, if they cannot come to an agreement, the Chasidim will still know what their Rebbe holds, as opposed to the US aguda. I think that's what the writer had in mind. Additionally, he had no issue with lakewood having a voice if they cared for what Aguda had to say but they don't. I see you and other people read it differently so I can't say for sure.
Ok. But I think the same is true for yeshivish. Nobody cares about the daas Torah of "the moetzes", despite the modox conspiracy theories, only about their personal Gadol or Rav. And that's exactly what happened here. No statement from the moetzes, a statement from 5 Gedolim on the matter, and he gets mad about "Lakewood".
That could be, but in that case, his other point is correct, that the Moetzes is irrelevant.
BTW, it's really ironic how the main-stream chareidi society is being bashed from both sides. Slifkin has been ranting all week that the Aguda did not endorse the rally, and in the meantime, Satmar Rebbe (Z.) gives a public speech denouncing Aguda for completely supporting the Zionist rally, and with in the community, some are bashing the Aguda for not being united and others saying no-one cares about them anyway!
Yes, he can't even produce thought-through parody leitzonus, never mind acknowledging that there even are issues that need addressing in the community. How could he, he is a paid up gadolator.
Hey, he's thought through 90% of the time and 10% says content-free-letzanus. It's a goal some people here should aim for.
Your response here is the best part;)
🤣
Very good.
Well said.
But I do think that anonymous aguda guy has a point. Lemaaseh black hatters were largely absent from the rally. At the end of the day the oilam hayeshivas does run kind of as a network and they didn't show up
Did you ask people in Lakewood, Chaim Berlin, Beis Hatalmud, Passaic, South Fallsburg, etc why they didn't go? Do you understand the reasoning and merely disagree with it?
Most people in Lakewood I spoke to believed that the chances of any benefit from this rally were pretty low, and therefore learning takes precedent. The Rabbis' March was to draw attention to something that was being ignored. Here, the politicians were not ignoring it, and there was no reason to draw awareness.
Indeed, the 'kidish hashem' that people are talking about, the achdus, the kiruv opportunities of Rabbi Eisenman etc. show that many others also believed that the political benefit was not that important. Achdus, kiruv etc are not as important as a bochur/yungerman's learning. The Olam Hayeshivos knew and recognized its priorities.
i've expressed my opinion many times on rj. the reason to go is very simple. there has been an unimaginable tragedy and beyond the tragedy there was a huge unprecedented denial in real time Rl. this is not a group of boring history deniers; this has been a political craziness where the clearest narrative has been so easily pushed in the wrong direction immediately. there were riots before any bombing started. and this has backing form the highest levels of governments throughout the world, even in america. baruch Hashem biden and co. are on israel's side, but the need to pressure him the other way is obvious. a rally has been shown to be an effective way to show support. al pi teva - imho - this was a very important initiative.
then opposition came out from the higher ups in chareidi communities not to go, and the reasons given were silly, to put it mildly.
the only taina acceptable was that the hishtadlus here is not really helpful anyways. which i disagree with, but that's at least an opinion worth discussing. but this taina was encompassed within all the other silly tainos. you and i know that most people in lakewood, chaim berlin, passaic etc didn't go is because...no one was going. the reasons weren't even that important. it just wasn't the 'thing' that we are doing. the reasons were afterthoughts.
who did you speak to in lakewood? chevra? me too. the sentiment was just that this wasn't important. because the rabonim in lakewood didn't think it was. because there were christians there. o and an actress. Rl. there should've been a rabbi with a long white beard, he would convince biden more than that actress.
"we fight physical sakana with tefila" was another sentiment going around as liquid as the other tainas. o ya - and also what are the chances this will help anyways. they were talking the talk
bH there was a - surprisingly - close to 300k attending and the yeshivishe community was hardly missed, but no one knew that before. there was an expected 7-20k. they could've doubled it.
i'm not mad about the lack of attendance. i'm disappointed about the fact that everyone decided for themselves and didn't speak to their rabbeim
and that when the roshei yeshiva of lakewood put out their tainos people just went with it, agree or not.
to be perfectly clear, i don't think there is a better community to be a part of. we are the only ones who are machshiv Hashem's heilige Torah kidibai; who appreciate what iyun is. but that doesn't mean that there aren't issues that don't need to be fixed.
That has nothing to do with the issue. It wasn't about the Yeshivas not going but Balabatim having no leadership, and moetzes members not getting their opinion out because the more Yeshivish disapproved.
Well, he mentioned the 'olam hayeshivos', but you may have a different claim.
I misunderstood his comment initially, my bad. I responded to his after that.
I don't think it's about who came and who didn't. If that was the full Aguda's position that's one thing but it wasn't.
You are raising a separate issue that was not addressed in the letter. I hear that loud and clear, and though I wasn't sure about joining, only after did I realize what a national stage it had and how bad it looked that Yeshivas are indifferent. I don't think most people realized that beforehand. (I know, Rabbi Feldman was the opposite in that regard. ולי צריך עיון)
I like how there's two satmar and bobov and ten vizhnitz...
Only one Belz?
And did you even mention kloisenberg? I once worked in their day camp!
You guys know more about this than I do. I'm just a humble disgruntled Sadigur Chassid with important criticism that you should listen to.
They have an excellent daycamp!
And great food as well.
Why 10 Vizhnitz and one Spinka?
Why does it matter if I'm ignorant on the rudimentaries of hassidism? I have important criticism and you should listen to me.
Yeah, there should be at least, like, 49.
"There is…gasp…CHABAD!!!!"
How dare you. I have it on high authority Chabad merits (if that's the correct word) two mentions, like Satmar, l'havdil. One for the meshichists and one for everyone else. I don't know if both deserve gasps or not.
No clue what's going on here. Honestly. So confused.
A joke isn't funny once it has to be explained, but apparently, R' Happy is making a parody of this letter:
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/the-agudah-crisis
If I understand R' Happy correctly, this 'crisis' in the Agudah that Slifkin is busy goading about where different communities within the Agudah umbrella follow their respective rabbis is about just as big of a crisis of the individual chassidusen, although all under the general term "chassidish," all follow their respective rebbes.