If you guys are ok with the idea, I could write a guest post on religion and modern science. I think it would be useful to all of you and even slifkin would find it interesting, too
I would love if you opened up your own blog and offer ideas/educate us - I'd *definitely* be interested, but I'm not sure if this is the forum for a non-Jew to be writing the post, since the point is to spread specifically ultra-orthodox (chareidi) Jewish culture. Slifkin may let if you email him, who knows? And I'm obviously not talking for Happy. But in the comments section this is perfect (unless Happy decides not of course...).
If you don't get to write your own post and don't want to start a blog, I'd love to hear your thoughts on religion and modern science right now right here...
Also I never responded to your response https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/do-we-misrepresent-our-opponents/comment/39966474 - the only thing I'd have to say is that your welcome to join Marc Shapiro as an outsider to our Mesorah (tradition) but our oral Torah is super rock solid, all the way through from beginning to end. Any questions people have is due to lack of their understanding. Anyone on the inside knows enough to vouch for that...
"and eventually the doubts will either be answered or become insignificant in the scale of the much greater Truth"
Exactly!!!
When I was an atheist I thought that these questions were bombs. But now they are just הערות. I don't have a lot of the answers but in light of everything else provided, there is simply not enough to tear down the structure. Only those ignorant in we are really about think that they can tear us down.
I had a thought that when is says that עמלק came because we were lax in Torah, this is exactly the point: when you're lax in Torah, when you never get down to the bottom of it, now there's room for עמלק, the total and complete עולם הזה guys.
Perhaps you can write an article about your experiences and mindset as you fell. It may be a chizuk for others. When people can identify a feeling, they can deal with it. When they cannot, it confuses them.
I cut and paste it from Emunah Matters from the Jewish Press. The Heavenly City has a slightly different version with the same point.
It is said that over one hundred years ago in Yerushalayim, a twelve-year-old boy approached the great gadol, Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, with a question.
“After musaf on Shabbos morning, we say, ‘Ein K’Elokeinu, There is no Lord like our Lord.’ Then, we say, ‘Mi K’Elokeinu, Who is like our Lord?’ Shouldn’t the order be reversed? First, we should ask, ‘Who is like our Lord?’ and then we can answer, ‘There is no Lord like our Lord.’ Wouldn’t that make more sense?” the boy inquired.
Rav Yosef Chaim smiled at the young boy’s inquisitiveness. “Great question,” he said, “But before I answer you, I would like to ask you a question. Have you ever explored the underground caves beneath the Old City of Yerushalayim?” This was a common pastime for children at that time.
“Of course, I have,” the boy nodded.
Rav Yosef Chaim continued, “Those caves are pretty dangerous. They are full of twists and turns and people can get lost inside. Are you ever afraid of getting lost inside the caves? Do you do anything to help you make it out safely?”
“Yes, I do,” the boy replied, “I attach a rope to my waist and tie it to a large rock at the entrance to the cave. This way, I can explore the tunnels as deeply as I want and always make it back safely.”
“This is the answer to your question,” Rav Yosef Chaim explained.
“The question of ‘Mi K’Elokeinu, Who is like Our Lord?’ is a very difficult question. To try and discover who Hashem really is and to describe His attributes can put people in spiritual danger. Sometimes people ask questions and receive incomplete answers. Still, we must ask these questions in order to get close to Hashem Yisborach. There is only one safe way to ask these questions. It is just like when you explore the depths of the tunnels. When we try to explore the depths of Hashem to some degree, we need to tie a lifeline around ourselves first so that we make it back in one piece. We know that if we get lost and confused, we can always return to our lifeline. If we wander into dangerous spiritual territory, we will remain safe because we have secured our rope to the great stone at the entrance to the cave.
“Saying ‘Ein K’Elokeinu, There is no Lord like our Lord’ is our lifeline. It is our anchor of emunah and bitachon, trust and faith in Hashem. When we secure this thought in our minds we safely examine the challenging question of ‘Mi K’Elokeinu, Who is like our Lord?’”
I'm guessing it's a pig, which is actually kosher. Chewing it's cud in this context means rummaging around in the mud, as he explains in his MONOGRAPH. The חזיר of the Torah is actually a hippopotamus.
How it got confused with a pig is a long discussion, not for now.
LOL. The reason why Chareidim forgot what a חזיר is, is because they are makpid not to say the word but דבר אחר. So after a few generations they lost the mesorah and forgot what is was.
If you read that 300 page monograph on the pig and the hippo and how the meanings of the two words got transposed, I am duly impressed. Did he focus solely on the subject or drag Charedim into the mud too?
He wasn't discussing chareidim per se, but he did use the Quran's statement that Jews were turned into apes and pigs as a primary source to validate their kashrus. He then went on a 250 page tangent, discussing whether or not people are kosher midoraisa. (This may have been coauthored by Marc Shapiro).
Based on what you said earlier, his argument must be that only people who wallow in mud are kosher, because they engage in cud chewing too. Or maybe it's enough to identify as porcine, then no need to wallow. Rashi's silence on the issue might be problematic.
I'm afraid I cannot link it, as I am under a strict pledge from Natan not to disclose any of this information. Only "museum donors" got a sneak peek.
Just kidding. I have no idea what Natan's mysterious creature is. But hey, let's wait till he discloses that information himself, maybe I'm not that far off. I hope I'm not giving him any ideas...
Solid post. If you want to know who Rav Romm is, he was a rav in Yerushalayim and a contemporary of Rav TP Frank. (Theres a street near mir named after him)
Beautiful post. Thank you Happy for all the work you put in helping those who suffer from too much intellectual curiosity. כתיבה וחתימה טובה!
If you guys are ok with the idea, I could write a guest post on religion and modern science. I think it would be useful to all of you and even slifkin would find it interesting, too
I would love if you opened up your own blog and offer ideas/educate us - I'd *definitely* be interested, but I'm not sure if this is the forum for a non-Jew to be writing the post, since the point is to spread specifically ultra-orthodox (chareidi) Jewish culture. Slifkin may let if you email him, who knows? And I'm obviously not talking for Happy. But in the comments section this is perfect (unless Happy decides not of course...).
If you don't get to write your own post and don't want to start a blog, I'd love to hear your thoughts on religion and modern science right now right here...
Also I never responded to your response https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/do-we-misrepresent-our-opponents/comment/39966474 - the only thing I'd have to say is that your welcome to join Marc Shapiro as an outsider to our Mesorah (tradition) but our oral Torah is super rock solid, all the way through from beginning to end. Any questions people have is due to lack of their understanding. Anyone on the inside knows enough to vouch for that...
"and eventually the doubts will either be answered or become insignificant in the scale of the much greater Truth"
Exactly!!!
When I was an atheist I thought that these questions were bombs. But now they are just הערות. I don't have a lot of the answers but in light of everything else provided, there is simply not enough to tear down the structure. Only those ignorant in we are really about think that they can tear us down.
I had a thought that when is says that עמלק came because we were lax in Torah, this is exactly the point: when you're lax in Torah, when you never get down to the bottom of it, now there's room for עמלק, the total and complete עולם הזה guys.
[edit] I realize I basically made this very point here (and זכרון דברים's points are unbelievable so it's worth a look just for that!) - https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/happy-jumping-elephant-day/comment/39694240
[edit again] and here: https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/happy-jumping-elephant-day/comment/39694240
Perhaps you can write an article about your experiences and mindset as you fell. It may be a chizuk for others. When people can identify a feeling, they can deal with it. When they cannot, it confuses them.
Interesting idea. If people think it'll be a chizuk, maybe I can try to put my thoughts together. But I'm not promising anything...
Have it checked over so it shouldn't end up being a michshol, ודו"ק
Yeah if I ever get around to it, i'd trust Happy to decide if it's taka l'toeles
Thank you for your kind words. זה חלקי מכל עמלי.
Are you aware of the vort of Reb Chaim Sonenfeld's on אין כא-לקינו?
Don't think so. Care to share?
I cut and paste it from Emunah Matters from the Jewish Press. The Heavenly City has a slightly different version with the same point.
It is said that over one hundred years ago in Yerushalayim, a twelve-year-old boy approached the great gadol, Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, with a question.
“After musaf on Shabbos morning, we say, ‘Ein K’Elokeinu, There is no Lord like our Lord.’ Then, we say, ‘Mi K’Elokeinu, Who is like our Lord?’ Shouldn’t the order be reversed? First, we should ask, ‘Who is like our Lord?’ and then we can answer, ‘There is no Lord like our Lord.’ Wouldn’t that make more sense?” the boy inquired.
Rav Yosef Chaim smiled at the young boy’s inquisitiveness. “Great question,” he said, “But before I answer you, I would like to ask you a question. Have you ever explored the underground caves beneath the Old City of Yerushalayim?” This was a common pastime for children at that time.
“Of course, I have,” the boy nodded.
Rav Yosef Chaim continued, “Those caves are pretty dangerous. They are full of twists and turns and people can get lost inside. Are you ever afraid of getting lost inside the caves? Do you do anything to help you make it out safely?”
“Yes, I do,” the boy replied, “I attach a rope to my waist and tie it to a large rock at the entrance to the cave. This way, I can explore the tunnels as deeply as I want and always make it back safely.”
“This is the answer to your question,” Rav Yosef Chaim explained.
“The question of ‘Mi K’Elokeinu, Who is like Our Lord?’ is a very difficult question. To try and discover who Hashem really is and to describe His attributes can put people in spiritual danger. Sometimes people ask questions and receive incomplete answers. Still, we must ask these questions in order to get close to Hashem Yisborach. There is only one safe way to ask these questions. It is just like when you explore the depths of the tunnels. When we try to explore the depths of Hashem to some degree, we need to tie a lifeline around ourselves first so that we make it back in one piece. We know that if we get lost and confused, we can always return to our lifeline. If we wander into dangerous spiritual territory, we will remain safe because we have secured our rope to the great stone at the entrance to the cave.
“Saying ‘Ein K’Elokeinu, There is no Lord like our Lord’ is our lifeline. It is our anchor of emunah and bitachon, trust and faith in Hashem. When we secure this thought in our minds we safely examine the challenging question of ‘Mi K’Elokeinu, Who is like our Lord?’”
Natan was the subject of a peer reviewed study!
"Intermediate levels of scientific knowledge are associated with overconfidence and negative attitudes towards science"
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-023-01677-8
See ya mecharker! I was kind of hoping for a post revealing the secret Slifkin animal.
It's these guys
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/13/1199251336/mexico-alien-corpses-congress
I'm guessing it's a pig, which is actually kosher. Chewing it's cud in this context means rummaging around in the mud, as he explains in his MONOGRAPH. The חזיר of the Torah is actually a hippopotamus.
How it got confused with a pig is a long discussion, not for now.
LOL. The reason why Chareidim forgot what a חזיר is, is because they are makpid not to say the word but דבר אחר. So after a few generations they lost the mesorah and forgot what is was.
You're a riot!!! You should write a parody guest post...
This literally made me laugh out loud. Thank you.
If you read that 300 page monograph on the pig and the hippo and how the meanings of the two words got transposed, I am duly impressed. Did he focus solely on the subject or drag Charedim into the mud too?
He wasn't discussing chareidim per se, but he did use the Quran's statement that Jews were turned into apes and pigs as a primary source to validate their kashrus. He then went on a 250 page tangent, discussing whether or not people are kosher midoraisa. (This may have been coauthored by Marc Shapiro).
Based on what you said earlier, his argument must be that only people who wallow in mud are kosher, because they engage in cud chewing too. Or maybe it's enough to identify as porcine, then no need to wallow. Rashi's silence on the issue might be problematic.
Wait- there is really a monograph about pigs and hippos? I thought you were joking. Could you link it?
I'm afraid I cannot link it, as I am under a strict pledge from Natan not to disclose any of this information. Only "museum donors" got a sneak peek.
Just kidding. I have no idea what Natan's mysterious creature is. But hey, let's wait till he discloses that information himself, maybe I'm not that far off. I hope I'm not giving him any ideas...
"which we like to think is pretty close to the true Torah hashkafa, as close as we can get"
Who gets to define 'true Torah hashkafa'? What is 'torah hashkafa' anyway? Is leitzonus 'true Torah hashkafa'?
Solid post. If you want to know who Rav Romm is, he was a rav in Yerushalayim and a contemporary of Rav TP Frank. (Theres a street near mir named after him)
You can read about Rav Eliyahu Rom here
https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95_%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%9D
Wow, great post!