Most DL Rabbonim agree with the deferral for Yeshiva students. Such as Reb Dov Lior and his associates.
Many expats claim to be DL, but they are generally quite ignorant about DL shitos, have never learned Rav Kook's Seforim, and use the DL as a heter for their lifestyles, not as a basis for a Torah-oriented life. In many cases, these people never served in the army and Klal Yisroel has little benefit from them.
Rav tzvi yehuda only singled out his top students not to draft. Many do hesder merkaz where they just get the combat training needed for war. I dont think a majority of DL rabbanim would aprove of the average bachur indefinetly pushing off his draft. My rabbanim sure dont.
Of course the DL Rabbonim believe in their own opinions. But many of them also believe that there should be an option for someone who wishes to dedicate his life to Torah. They may not think that option is optimal, but they do not want the Charedi world to fail. They believe that the Charedi world needs to exist, on its terms, even as they disagree with their shitos.
Actually, הרצי"ה was for a long deferral (10 years) for everyone in מרכז.
Please see what his close תלמיד and מסכם, הרב חיים אביהוא שוורץ
wrote in בדרך התורה הגואלת, page רמב-רמו
He wrote:
אני מסור מאוד לצבא, ועם זה אני מתנגד לגיוסם של צעירים, של מי שראוי עדין להשתלם בגיבוש אישיותו הרוחנית בתורה. הדבר מצריך התיעצות אישית. היו מאיתנו שהלכו לצבא וגם השתתפו בקרבות לשחרור ירושלים, רמת הגולן קבר רחל ועוד.
מתוך כך אמרתי מילה חריפה: אם יעלה על הדעת לסדר כפיה סיטונית כללית של גיוס בחורי הישיבות, זה יהיה אסון למדינה. כל סיטונות אסורה. לא כולם ילכו ולא כולם לא ילכו. יערך ברור אישי, מתוך גדלות רוחנית, מתוך שייכות אמיתית. צריך לסדר הכל מתוך הבנה הדדית ולא מתוך כפיה.
ומדבריו בע"פ:
הבחורים שאלו את הרב צבי יהודה בזמן מבצע סיני, כיצד יתכן, שהוא כל כך מתנגד לגיוסם, והרי במלחמת השחרור הוא זה דחף ועודד את גיוסם של התלמידים?
הוא ענה, שאז היה הכרח של התגייסות, לא היה מי שילחם, כעת המצב השתנה ויש מספיק חיילים. לעומת זאת, יש הכרח גדול מאוד, כלל ישראלי, לגדל תלמידי חכמים בארץ ישראל.
And I know quite a few רבנים מתלמידיו who support דחיית שירות for many many years
The DL shitta is that going to the army is a positive thing, and they believe in combining Torah and building the land.
The Charedi shittah is different.
But the DL Rabbanim do not generally consider the Charedi shittah to be illegitimate. They appreciate the rights of the Charedim to disagree with them, and they see the benefit that they derive from having an uncompromising Charedi world in Israel. They know that their shittah is a dangerous one, and without a backstop of the full-time Charedi learning, their own learning would be very unstable.
Not sure if I would go that far that they believe their own learning would be unstable (do you have a source for that?), but Rabbi Lichtenstein in his essay on hesder does recognize what you say, that there is a danger in the hesder program.
I know. But he held they still need to draft (unless theyre hand-picked מצויינים). Could be the exact שיקול is a debate among talmidim(like everything). I hear that in har hamor theres a מחלוקת.
Id reply to slifkin is if unpaid subscribers can comment on his latest post: איפה אתה ואיפה המדינה!? The overwhelming feeling one gets in the streets here is that of אחדות and solidarity! The chareidim are volunteering and showing support in ways they never have before! The diehard leftists have all shown up for מילואים! These old מחלוקות will become less and less relevant as charedim begin to open up to a more religious country and the political/military leadership wakes up to who their real enemies are.
This post does not seem authentic. It sounds like Happy sock-puppeting as a soldier. Please provide some proof that this is real - like what unit he's in and where he trained etc.
Here is a bit of evidence that it is not me simply sockpuppeting as a soldier. This person had a previous post, before Yom Kippur, that had nothing to do with him being a soldier (the war hadn't even started). Why would I sockpuppet as some random person, about topics that I already write under my username?
I happen to strongly agree with every word he says. My point is only that if I can doubt the authenticity surely Slifkin and his readers will. A few defining points could show that this is really an IDF soldier without outing his identity and that will certainly have much greater impact.
That's called projection. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Don't inflate this beyond you, since you are the only one who is protesting. What are you going to do if your doubts aren't satisfied? Call people names?
This article is very inspiring and should be publicized widely. It can help us maintain emunah and not be swayed by the natural (rational?🤣) and inevitable sense of כחי ועוצם ידי.
Most DL Rabbonim agree with the deferral for Yeshiva students. Such as Reb Dov Lior and his associates.
Many expats claim to be DL, but they are generally quite ignorant about DL shitos, have never learned Rav Kook's Seforim, and use the DL as a heter for their lifestyles, not as a basis for a Torah-oriented life. In many cases, these people never served in the army and Klal Yisroel has little benefit from them.
Rav tzvi yehuda only singled out his top students not to draft. Many do hesder merkaz where they just get the combat training needed for war. I dont think a majority of DL rabbanim would aprove of the average bachur indefinetly pushing off his draft. My rabbanim sure dont.
You moved the goalposts.
Of course the DL Rabbonim believe in their own opinions. But many of them also believe that there should be an option for someone who wishes to dedicate his life to Torah. They may not think that option is optimal, but they do not want the Charedi world to fail. They believe that the Charedi world needs to exist, on its terms, even as they disagree with their shitos.
Actually, הרצי"ה was for a long deferral (10 years) for everyone in מרכז.
Please see what his close תלמיד and מסכם, הרב חיים אביהוא שוורץ
wrote in בדרך התורה הגואלת, page רמב-רמו
He wrote:
אני מסור מאוד לצבא, ועם זה אני מתנגד לגיוסם של צעירים, של מי שראוי עדין להשתלם בגיבוש אישיותו הרוחנית בתורה. הדבר מצריך התיעצות אישית. היו מאיתנו שהלכו לצבא וגם השתתפו בקרבות לשחרור ירושלים, רמת הגולן קבר רחל ועוד.
מתוך כך אמרתי מילה חריפה: אם יעלה על הדעת לסדר כפיה סיטונית כללית של גיוס בחורי הישיבות, זה יהיה אסון למדינה. כל סיטונות אסורה. לא כולם ילכו ולא כולם לא ילכו. יערך ברור אישי, מתוך גדלות רוחנית, מתוך שייכות אמיתית. צריך לסדר הכל מתוך הבנה הדדית ולא מתוך כפיה.
ומדבריו בע"פ:
הבחורים שאלו את הרב צבי יהודה בזמן מבצע סיני, כיצד יתכן, שהוא כל כך מתנגד לגיוסם, והרי במלחמת השחרור הוא זה דחף ועודד את גיוסם של התלמידים?
הוא ענה, שאז היה הכרח של התגייסות, לא היה מי שילחם, כעת המצב השתנה ויש מספיק חיילים. לעומת זאת, יש הכרח גדול מאוד, כלל ישראלי, לגדל תלמידי חכמים בארץ ישראל.
And I know quite a few רבנים מתלמידיו who support דחיית שירות for many many years
הב
I need to explain myself better.
The DL shitta is that going to the army is a positive thing, and they believe in combining Torah and building the land.
The Charedi shittah is different.
But the DL Rabbanim do not generally consider the Charedi shittah to be illegitimate. They appreciate the rights of the Charedim to disagree with them, and they see the benefit that they derive from having an uncompromising Charedi world in Israel. They know that their shittah is a dangerous one, and without a backstop of the full-time Charedi learning, their own learning would be very unstable.
Not sure if I would go that far that they believe their own learning would be unstable (do you have a source for that?), but Rabbi Lichtenstein in his essay on hesder does recognize what you say, that there is a danger in the hesder program.
Rabbi Lichtenstein was from Chutz La'aretz. He was not a Talmid of Rav Kook or his theology.
He was your garden variety American ModOx Rabbi, nothing to do with DL.
Not exactly, סוף כל סוף he made עליה and was a ראש ישיבת הסדר.
I know. But he held they still need to draft (unless theyre hand-picked מצויינים). Could be the exact שיקול is a debate among talmidim(like everything). I hear that in har hamor theres a מחלוקת.
He held that they should go after at least 10 years
ויעויין במאמרו של תלמידו, הגאון רבי זלמן ברוך מלמד
https://www.daat.ac.il/daat/tsava/maamar/gdoley-2.htm
Rabbi Melamed was and is an outlier, and many DL Rabbanim do not hold much of him.
I am not taking a side here, but he doesn't represent DL Rabbanim at all.
I think that you are confusing him with his son
Right. Im not arguing with that.
Id reply to slifkin is if unpaid subscribers can comment on his latest post: איפה אתה ואיפה המדינה!? The overwhelming feeling one gets in the streets here is that of אחדות and solidarity! The chareidim are volunteering and showing support in ways they never have before! The diehard leftists have all shown up for מילואים! These old מחלוקות will become less and less relevant as charedim begin to open up to a more religious country and the political/military leadership wakes up to who their real enemies are.
I completely agree
Just really sad that there is no way to change the demographics of the army to be more toradik
It still is sad that more cant be done do rehabilitate the army through bringing more Torah people to change the demographics of the army
https://www.inn.co.il/news/616525
This post does not seem authentic. It sounds like Happy sock-puppeting as a soldier. Please provide some proof that this is real - like what unit he's in and where he trained etc.
What he's saying is true, and i can say that as someone who served in צה"ל, and as a father of a soldier now (another son of mine is a בחור ישיבה)
Here is a bit of evidence that it is not me simply sockpuppeting as a soldier. This person had a previous post, before Yom Kippur, that had nothing to do with him being a soldier (the war hadn't even started). Why would I sockpuppet as some random person, about topics that I already write under my username?
No need to answer him. Anyone can cast doubt on anything
ערבך ערבא צריך
k 🤷
He wants to be anonymous just like you, me, and everybody else here, you can disbelieve if you like.
I happen to strongly agree with every word he says. My point is only that if I can doubt the authenticity surely Slifkin and his readers will. A few defining points could show that this is really an IDF soldier without outing his identity and that will certainly have much greater impact.
That's called projection. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Don't inflate this beyond you, since you are the only one who is protesting. What are you going to do if your doubts aren't satisfied? Call people names?
that's stupid
This article is very inspiring and should be publicized widely. It can help us maintain emunah and not be swayed by the natural (rational?🤣) and inevitable sense of כחי ועוצם ידי.