Beautifully written and well presented. I'll add that we say שבעים פנים לתורה. It doesn't mean there are 70 separate peshatim to each idea but Panim, meaning ways of looking at things. Why? because there are 70 כוחות הנפש and different people have their stronger כוחות to look at things in a different way based on their כוחות. Sanhedrin was also 70 people since that is the ultimate diversity where one can come to a consensus. Same with the understanding of 70 nations and 70 languages.
However, this article still doesn't answer the question because Shamai and Hillel didn't make a "joint aguda". They both held their own and led two separate communities.
It was a general point about accepting both sides as legitimate that has carry over to many other controversies.
As far as Agudah being an umbrella organization, initially I had an opinion on the matter but discovered that I don't know enough about the founding and purpose of Aguda to have a right to an opinion.
I would like to make the obvious disclaimer that my views don't necessarily reflect the views of IM or any of its writers.
It's refreshing to see a post on this blog that is not childish and petty. It just goes to underline the point that you don't need to resort to that for "PR" purposes, or to properly make a persuasive argument. Kudos - well said.
Well, we do hold of caveats just like anybody. Nobody expects us to follow the pope. I think we do a pretty good job explaining why those we oppose are fundamentally anti-Torah and it's not just another machlokes in halacha/hashkafa.
You do a lousy job, actually. Leitzonus, word salads and our of context quotes from aggadatah is not true scholarship. And if you believe it is, that justifies everything I write about the state of yeshivaland learning in 2023.
If it's true scholarship you are looking for, I would suggest The New England Journal of Medicine. Or l'havdil, if it is Torah scholarship you seek, the Pri Megadim.
Beautifully written and well presented. I'll add that we say שבעים פנים לתורה. It doesn't mean there are 70 separate peshatim to each idea but Panim, meaning ways of looking at things. Why? because there are 70 כוחות הנפש and different people have their stronger כוחות to look at things in a different way based on their כוחות. Sanhedrin was also 70 people since that is the ultimate diversity where one can come to a consensus. Same with the understanding of 70 nations and 70 languages.
However, this article still doesn't answer the question because Shamai and Hillel didn't make a "joint aguda". They both held their own and led two separate communities.
Thanks!
It was not intended to adress the Agudah aspect.
It was a general point about accepting both sides as legitimate that has carry over to many other controversies.
As far as Agudah being an umbrella organization, initially I had an opinion on the matter but discovered that I don't know enough about the founding and purpose of Aguda to have a right to an opinion.
I would like to make the obvious disclaimer that my views don't necessarily reflect the views of IM or any of its writers.
It's refreshing to see a post on this blog that is not childish and petty. It just goes to underline the point that you don't need to resort to that for "PR" purposes, or to properly make a persuasive argument. Kudos - well said.
Hey
I was referring to " well said"
well said! (as usual)
main point, imo, is find your rebbi. here's how i phrased it: https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/the-agudah-crisis/comment/43834026
Exactly.
"Follow the Gedolim that you resonate with, and understand that the opposition has a legitimate view as well."
Unless the opposition is against the mesorah/modernish/not from our beis hamedrash/just wrong, of course. And who decides that?
I didn't put that caveat in.
Well, this blog and its authors clearly holds of that caveat otherwise it would shut up shop, no?
Slifkin is intolerant and attacks chareidim.
This blog is a defense of chareidim.
Well, we do hold of caveats just like anybody. Nobody expects us to follow the pope. I think we do a pretty good job explaining why those we oppose are fundamentally anti-Torah and it's not just another machlokes in halacha/hashkafa.
True.
Obviously there is a line to be drawn.
This piece was specifically about the rally.
You do a lousy job, actually. Leitzonus, word salads and our of context quotes from aggadatah is not true scholarship. And if you believe it is, that justifies everything I write about the state of yeshivaland learning in 2023.
If it's true scholarship you are looking for, I would suggest The New England Journal of Medicine. Or l'havdil, if it is Torah scholarship you seek, the Pri Megadim.
dude seriously ur a troll