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Yo Shemesh's avatar

Not related to this post - I have been reading IM from the sidelines lately and I love the vibe! You guys got serious energy (sometimes too wild as I've pointed out on RJ;)

I haven't gotten the full culture-war story yet, but coming with an outsider-ish perspective, I wanted to ask about the afterlife. The last few posts on RJ made me ponder a lot about this and I wanted to receive some clarification:

If there is an afterlife, I would think it follows easily that our time spent here on this world is kind of just to get there. Before I became religious I thought this life was a bit meh. Religion was like not a thing. So what we do don't matter. That simple. For some reason we all like to make meaning out of life, but it's all just to feel good. The afterlife card that religion offers makes this game meaningful. Working towards a goal, living for something beyond this grind. Before I was very into science before. I specially loved quantum stuff. Not as a career and I was NEVER into the mathematics but yo, Brian Greene's books were like the best things I've ever read! Actually met him once on a trip to New York at one of his fancy science festivals, really nice guy! But now with religion, I mean science is still cool, sure, but it pales in comparison to what's in store if there is an afterlife. Eternity?? That is freaky stuff. That's reality!

More and more I'm convinced of this Judaism thing, and that means this afterlife thing is legit. If this is all true, you can call me selfish, but like heck I'm not going to give this stuff up. I'm working with a study partner on Chinukh and Minchat Chinukh, getting the Mitzvot down pat (up to number 28 after a year plus!) Because I know that God wants us to learn His Torah and Mitzvot to get a picture of who He is before we kick the bucket. And three weeks ago I disabled my Netflix account and haven't watched a movie with girls since:)

Here is where I believe Haredim get it right. But I think there is a point that this ultra-focus on self perfection, even if correct, can breed selfishness. Now if I understand Luzzatto correctly, he explains that the reward is the connection with God, and being selfless is Godly, thus being selfless will actually help earn that reward. But does that flip the script and make it selfish again? This philosophy rabbit hole is giving me a headache.

The reason this has been bothering me now is because the Rationalists keep saying how Haredim are selfish, and do they have a point? Maybe. But their point is not actually against Haredim. It is against religion (with an afterlife) in general.

If anyone can help me, I'd be delighted.

Yo 😎

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Leib Shachar's avatar

Really enjoyed the read. By any chance do you know of a good uniform way of determining the meaning of עד היום הזה in Mikra? I am familiar with the Gemaras and the dialogue between R yeshaya Berlin and noda eyehuda, and the mahalech of the Zecher Yosef, that any time it says when if it were to be in it's time it would be superfluous, it is going on the future. Rav Hirsch echoes this as well. I think it lines up most of the time though I am having a hard time with some in Yehoshua. Do you know of a different way of understanding?

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